Ah, sorry, David, Saba! the wrong name came to my
late night memory, but there was at times little
direct connection between your version and the Italian
original, and many poets have done this, writing
'versions' from an original, so it's not a criticism,
but just my wondering at the difference/s between
these various ways of collaborating with the dead?
best,
Rebecca
--- David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> > > the Donne poem
> > > she exploits has no direct connection with what
> > > she's writing about,
> >
> > Does this matter? for instance, I thought David's
> > 'Ungaretti' version at times had little direct
> > connection with the original.
> >
>
> It certainly didn't have any connectiuon with
> Ungaretti as the original was
> by Umberto Saba.
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R S" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [New-Poetry] Fascicle 2
>
>
> > Oh, well, actually I like Geraldine's poem, which
> I've
> > previously read, and don't find that she
> 'exploits'
> > Donne though there are moments where the
> repetition of
> > the 'no' and 'the body' seem to have a sort of
> > dissipating effect.
> >
> > On the other hand, I have wondered at this issue
> of
> > collaboration with the dead ever since I read
> Lucie
> > Brock-Broidio's _Master Letters_ which is based
> upon
> > Emily Dickinson's 'master' letters, or Amy
> Clampitt's
> > poems on Keats or Lynda Hull's poems on Tolstoi,
> or
> > Edward Hirsch's poems on Weil. I guess it could be
> > argued that the principle of post-modernism is
> > cannablism, that all texts even those by
> exceptional
> > writers, are meat to be digressed, digested into
> new
> > cells. And what's the difference/s between Monk
> > collaborating with Donne or David's recent version
> of
> > Ungaretti or Stephen's 'Sappho' and 'Stein' poems
> > which may bear little or varying degrees to the
> > original and use it as a springboard? So in that
> > sense, I guess I wonder more at Monk's essay that
> > accompanies the collaboration, is it because she
> is
> > collaborating with the texts of canonical male
> writers
> > and so has to create a framework to do so?
> >
> > > the Donne poem
> > > she exploits has no direct connection with what
> > > she's writing about,
> >
> > Does this matter? for instance, I thought David's
> > 'Ungaretti' version at times had little direct
> > connection with the original.
> >
> > > in the second it is not a good idea to
> extensively
> > > quote someone who
> > > is so obviously a better writer, the whole thing
> > > reads to me like
> > > petulant graffitti
> >
> > Well, all I can say is that it didn't seem like
> > 'petulant graffitti', and I do think I've had
> enough
> > of my share of 'petulant graffitti' to know what
> it
> > is. Anyway, this is just my take on it, I am not
> > making some Universal Law, so feel free to
> disregard
> > if it gets your goat,
> >
> > best,
> >
> > Rebecca
> > --- Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Ah, a lesson in etiquette. My mind had skipped
> over
> > > all that, which I
> > > read as an attempt to understand the why of a
> poem
> > > that Dave couldn't
> > > otherwise decipher rather than as a comment on
> > > Geraldine's
> > > personality structure in general. You seem to
> have
> > > remembered the
> > > parts I forgot and forgotten the parts I
> remember,
> > > like "Not a good
> > > idea on Geraldine's part I'd say: in the first
> place
> > > the Donne poem
> > > she exploits has no direct connection with what
> > > she's writing about,
> > > in the second it is not a good idea to
> extensively
> > > quote someone who
> > > is so obviously a better writer, the whole thing
> > > reads to me like
> > > petulant graffitti," which is perhaps impatient
> but
> > > is certainly a
> > > comment on the process of the poem and precedes
> the
> > > things you note.
> > > I have no idea, based on what I read, whether
> > > there's animus involved
> > > or just more of that impatience.
> > >
> > > I'm looking forward to Geraldine's NY reading.
> I'm
> > > very intrerested
> > > in reading as performance but totally
> uninterested
> > > in poetry as
> > > performance. Somebody said it in this
> discussion--if
> > > it doesn't work
> > > on the page it's something, but not poetry. What
> I
> > > hope for--what I
> > > always hope for--is a reading that enlightens
> me
> > > about how to read.
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > At 06:43 PM 2/14/2006, you wrote:
> > > >On 15/2/06 9:52 AM, "Mark Weiss"
> > > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Your point being that some critical
> commentary
> > > > > engages, is useful, others not? Is the
> criterion
> > > > > whether or not you agree with it?
> > > >
> > > >No; my point is that comments like "Geraldine's
> > > desire to be noticed" or
> > > >accusations that she "splatters her ego" over
> > > Donne; or indeed that she is
> > > >writing "extortions" rather than poems, and
> snide
> > > comments about her and
> > > >Alan Halsey's "small business", seem to me to
> be
> > > directed towards the author
> > > >rather than to the poem itself.
> > > >
> > > >Personally, I enjoy the music and rhythms that
> > > Geraldine has made with her
> > > >collaging of Donne, and the slippages of
> meaning
> > > between the two
> > > >sensibilities. They are also, as she says,
> quite
> > > fond homages and
> > > >expressions of admiration for those poets. I
> don't
> > > take it amiss if nobody
> > > >else thinks the same; that is their right and I
> > > don't expect people to agree
> > > >with me. But I can't see how clear personal
> animus
> > > is a useful basis for
> > > >literary criticism.
> > > >
> > > >Best
> > > >
> > > >A
> > > >
> > > >Alison Croggon
> > > >
> > > >Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> > > >Editor, Masthead: http://masthead.net.au
> > > >Home page: http://alisoncroggon.com
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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