Or perhaps the lecturers' judgements are right and you are wrong. This is
just a logical possibility.
I'm sure we're all MILES from the last words on any of these issues.
Iain
Iain Hood
Senior Student Adviser
Student Support Services
Anglia Ruskin University
East Road
Cambridge
CB1 1PT
0845 196 2316
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Suzanne Ryan" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: Making money off students - Tail wagging the dog
> Very last word. We have compulsory use of Turnitin and it has forced
> lecturers to understand referencing themselves so that they can both
> explain it to students and use Turnitin for assessment. The assumption
> that lecturers know how to cite is not hard to demolish. In induction
> and training sessions for lecturers we use Jude Carroll's 'where do you
> draw the line excercise' and find the majority of lecturers are
> incorrect in their judgement of correct citation methods! For $14,000
> per year, Turnitin is a cheap and effective pedagogical tool for
> overcoming plagiarism by helping to educate both staff and students.
>
> S
>
> Suzanne Ryan
> Teaching, Learning and Quality Coordinator
> Newcastle Graduate School of Business
> University of Newcastle
> Callaghan NSW 2308
> Australia
>
> Phone +61 2 49 216015
> Fax +61 2 49 217398
>
> www.gsb.newcastle.edu.au
>
> >>> "Schmitt, Diane" <[log in to unmask]> 27/09/06 5:47 PM >>>
> In the Washington Post article, I think the intellectual property issue
> is just a red herring. I think the real issue is pedagogy and getting
> real people to provide it.
>
> Many students have never been taugth and do not understand the purpose
> of using source texts in academic writing. If students don't understand
> why they need to use sources and how to select them and when to quote,
> summarize or paraphrase, expensive text-matching software is not going
> to help. Turnitin and other text-matching software is limited to
> identifying copying and in my experience copying is just a symptom of
> much deeper misunderstanding. A lot of money is being thrown at a
> symptom and the real teaching isn't happening.
>
> Additionally, as has been noted by others, in the business world and in
> university administration a whole lot of copying of other peoples texts
> goes on without attribution, why is it deemed to be ok there and not in
> student writing? This is what we need to help students understand.
>
> Diane
>
> Diane Schmitt
> Senior Lecturer in EFL/TESOL
> Nottingham Language Centre
> Nottingham Trent University
> Burton Street
> Nottingham NG1 4BU
> Tel 0115 848 6156
> Fax 0115 848 6513
> [log in to unmask]
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Plagiarism on behalf of Suzanne Ryan
> Sent: Wed 27/09/2006 05:51
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Making money off students - Tail wagging the dog
>
>
>
> When Turnitin is used primarily to help students understand citation
> practice, then it is indeed a powerful educational tool. At the
> University of Newcastle in Australia, we insist that students must
> first
> see their Turnitin reports and correct them if necessary prior to
> final
> submission of an assignment. In this way, students have to make
> judgements re matching text and to do this they need to understand the
> requirements. Nothing focuses a student's mind in terms of learning
> about plagiarism avoidance more than seeing their own work in colour.
> This not only greatly reduces plagiarism but enhances learning.
>
> On the IP issue, research students and academics may use Turnitin to
> protect their work from unscrupulous supervisors and colleagues.
>
> Turnitin is not perfect, but it has made a very big and positive
> impact
> in our University and my School in particular.
>
> S
>
> Suzanne Ryan
> Teaching, Learning and Quality Coordinator
> Newcastle Graduate School of Business
> University of Newcastle
> Callaghan NSW 2308
> Australia
>
> Phone +61 2 49 216015
> Fax +61 2 49 217398
>
> www.gsb.newcastle.edu.au
>
> >>> "Schmitt, Diane" <[log in to unmask]> 27/09/06 7:35 AM >>>
> My good for them is based on the uneasy feeling many people share and
> I
> feel quite strongly about is that forcing students to submit papers
> through Turnitin or other software is a breach of trust. All students
> are being tarred with the "you might be a potential cheater brush".
> The
> article states that another high school that uses the service - Broad
> Run, found only 3 cases of cheating in the first year of use and has
> found only another 3 cases since 2002. You could infer that Turnitin
> is
> working and cheaters have been deterred or you could infer that not
> that
> many kids at Broad Run high school cheat anyway and that the school is
> spending a whole lot of money for nothing.
>
> The media and academics are often far too quick to haul students in
> front of disciplinary boards for cheating when in fact they have
> simply
> referenced poorly. I teach students about referencing and it is very
> rare that students get it right the first or even second time around.
> The students at B
>
> Diane Schmitt
> Senior Lecturer of EFL/TESOL
> Nottingham Language Centre
> Nottingham Trent University
> Burton Street
> Nottingham NG1 4BU
> Tel 0115 848 6156
> Fax 0115 848 6513
> [log in to unmask]
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Plagiarism on behalf of Mike Reddy
> Sent: Tue 26/09/2006 22:12
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Making money off students - Tail wagging the dog
>
>
>
> Diane's "Good for them!" is what got me mad. The phrase "making money
> off students" put the cherry on the cake. I'm no defender of
> TurnitinUK
> - detection software does not solve the problem of copying, just the
> detection (mostly) - but from my understanding of the technical
> aspects
> of the way the database works, the 'use' of students' work is limited
> to
> the thumbprint that is stored. This would not allow Barrie or any
> other
> iParadigms employee to read and, therefore, use an essay; the only way
> that an author's IP could be abused. You might just as well say that
> all
> the words I have just used to type this email are the property of
> someone else. Of the electrons flowing through the computer that made
> up
> the email. The thumbnails produced by analysing the essays are rather
> like the results of me counting how many of each letter were used.
> Would
> the fact that ?? letter Ts were used be an infringement of my IP if
> you
> took the trouble to count it for yourself?
>
> Whether or not IP belongs to the students or the universities - many
> of
> which have clauses defining ownership in the 'contract' signed on
> registration, but fewer have the procedures to regain that after
> coursework submission and marking - is another matter. Maybe, Diane
> could explain her remarks and suggest alternatives to using plagiarism
> detection software?
>
> P.S. There really were 124 Ts used. 124 is therefore, my intellectual
> property.
>
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