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INT-BOUNDARIES  2006

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Subject:

re nonnational territory held in common trust & re would anyone stand for everyones land

From:

aletheia kallos <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

aletheia kallos <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:06:12 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (216 lines)

in grateful reply to
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind0611&L=int-boundaries&T=0&F=&S=&X=42A78F33198A3502A3&Y=aletheiak%40yahoo.com&P=2105
a full copy of which is provided at the end of this
message


my friend i agree with your realistic appraisal that
other enterprising parties than our own everyonese
nation do indeed remain & will continue to remain in
active competition with us 
even for such spaces as have already been very broadly
disclaimed

one need only recall how substantial a fraction of our
once inaccessibly & unfathomably deep sea beds & high
seas that are now called exclusive economic zones have
been stripped in recent decades of practically all our
everyonese sovereign rights 
by systematic appropriation to practically all our
neighboring states

so yes
i certainly do see how the tide of self interest &
partial interest is still rising against us everyonese
everywhere
even as we speak & play in the surf of history here
rather than ebbing away at all 
to leave us finally high & dry & fully possessed of
our everyonese homeland

& i say high dry & everyonese in this case
both conceptually & generally in reference to anywhere
& everywhere
but also specifically & practically in the sense of
being in full possession of a slightly extended marie
byrd land
just to confirm the present & only known case of dry
land we might be talking about
& to endeavor to answer your question too

for indeed i know of no other such unclaimed land
anywhere on earth

at least not since even castaway desert islands began
projecting eezs anyway


but i do imagine that the antarctic treaty system
umbrella
in both freezing the old & forbidding any new claims
to antarctica & to the 30 southernmost degrees of
latitude generally
if taken in conjunction with the matching unclos
system umbrella
which expressly erects a human heritage area 
or rather 18 additional human heritage areas
in the remaining 150 or northernmost degrees of
latitude 
does hold forth an extra measure of insurance if not
real security for our already twice or thrice
disclaimed antarctic territorial holdings
at least
such as they are
whether already legally real or still only fanciful
for so long as the question of whether there can even
be any sovereign territory in antarctica does remain
legally frozen anyway


so 
does that amount to a beachhead & a foothold for
everyone
or none

i still cant say


& this uncertainty of mine is one reason i am
wondering whether we shouldnt in some way actually
institute or constitute everyones land legally somehow
just to remove the possibility of this ambiguity

for if it exists as everyones rather than merely as no
mans land
then it exists 
once & for all

& once conceptually realized & legally actualized
somehow
it might then forever be a political force to be
reckoned with too
at least within the former no mans land 
if not everywhere


& i also understand & agree with your suggestion that
the creation of everyones land would require a
complete change in our human identity etc

but not necessarily with your time estimate of
centuries or millennia
since life on earth as we know it appears to be
running out of time

& that is my greater reason for wondering
shouldnt we do something establishmentarian &
definitive now


& of course it is not for the eventual exploitation of
the natural resources that i am concerned 
nor am i even necessarily thinking about a place to
build my future home
nor to claim ownership & representation of the lowest
point on earth
in fact
but rather only to evince our greater human patrimony
at this time
which is the full sovereignty of us all 
both individually & collectively
& to do so not in the name of saving of our skins but
of filling them


Date:         Thu, 30 Nov 2006 21:37:30 +0000
Reply-To:     Ilan Kelman <[log in to unmask]>
Sender:       International boundaries discussion list
              <[log in to unmask]>
From:         Ilan Kelman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Non-National Territory held in
Common Trust
In-Reply-To: 
<[log in to unmask]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Thank you for your further comments and questions.  I
have few facts with 
which to reply, so I provide speculation and opinion. 
Hopefully others will 
jump in with corrections or disagreements where
appropriate.

1. Regarding the unclaimed portion of Antarctica, if
there were economic 
gain from it, I believe that countries and/or
multinationals would be quick 
to claim it, or to act without bothering to claim,
especially if the 
Antarctic Treaty System had collapsed.  Sorry to be
cynical, but I think 
that it is also being realistic.  Conflicting claims,
including exploitation 
vs environmentalism, could of course lead to war.  If
the West Antarctic Ice 
Sheet were to collapse, presumably due to climate
change, I do not know how 
much of Marie Byrd Land would be left nor how
accessible that portion would 
be for resource extraction or conservation/research
activities.

2. Are there any other land areas on Earth which are
unclaimed?  Not like 
the Spratly Islands which are claimed several times,
but like Marie Byrd 
Land and the section outside Norway's Antarctic claim
for which no claim 
exists.  Are these unclaimed lands rocks and islets or
are there further 
substantial portions of unclaimed land?

3. To supplement the boundary crosses, I had
understood that four countries 
meet in southern Africa?  See
http://www.lowdown.co.zm/2003/2003-12/wherefourcountriesmeet.htm
and
http://www.safarinow.com/go/ChobeMarinaLodge
Or have I been fooled by tourist literature?

4. Regarding going from No One's Land to Everyone's
Land and "a nation state 
in which the sovereignty of every individual human
being both within that 
state & outside of it is indeed fully regarded &
valued as equally divine", 
those would require a complete and nearly universal
change regarding how our 
species views identity, statehood, culture, and
nationhood.  Perhaps in a 
few centuries or millennia.  Consider how those views
have changed since a 
few centuries and millennia in the past.  So it is not
impossible, it just 
takes time--or perhaps a fundamental change such as a
catastrophe wiping out 
90%+ of humanity or an attack by extraterrestrials.  I
think that this 
discussion has drifted slightly away from
international borders.

Ilan










 
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