JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for SPM Archives


SPM Archives

SPM Archives


SPM@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

SPM Home

SPM Home

SPM  2006

SPM 2006

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: a few PPI questions

From:

Darren Gitelman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Darren Gitelman <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:09:19 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (123 lines)

I'll try to answer the first two questions. 

>-----Original Message-----
>From: SPM (Statistical Parametric Mapping) 
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Angstadt
>Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 11:52 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [SPM] a few PPI questions
>
>Hi,
>
>I have a couple of questions about performing a PPI analysis in SPM2.
>
>First, what are the reasons to adjust/not adjust the data when 
>extracting a VOI?  This post by Darren Gittelman suggests not 
>adjusting the data
>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind03&L=SPM&D=0&I=-
>3&m=12246&P=426684
>
>But the sample analysis from Will Penny and several other 
>posts on here suggest adjusting for Effects of Interest.


My response may have been in error as far as what the processing stream
"should be", but because of quirks in how spm_regions interacts with
spm_peb_ppi, it turns out to be fortuitously a correct answer.  My answer
today  would be adjust for the effects of interest, but here is why choosing
<don't adjust> also works BUT only if the intention is to do PPI.

WARNING: boring description of matlab code follows
On line 91 of spm_regions the code sets up the menu that allows you to
choose what to adjust. Eventually a popup menu appears which includes 
   <don't adjust>
   effects of interest
   ... other F contrats

A corresponding variable q is also setup, which will index the appropriate F
contrast in the xCon field (the structure array that contains all the
contrasts). The first entry of q is 0, the second is usually 1,
corresponding to the effects of interest.

If you choose <don't adjust> then on line 101, xY.Ic is set to 0.

Things roll merrily along until line 173. Since xY.Ic is 0, the program does
not enter that if statement, but resumes processing on line 187.

On this line it sets up xY.X0, which will contain the whitened confounds of
the block/session effects (SPM.xX.iB) and the mean column (SPM.xX.iG).

This gets exported into the VOI file.

Now you press the PPI button and import your VOI files. On approx line 204
of spm_peb_ppi the code removes the whitened confounds from Y (the first
eigenvariate). This effectively removes the mean and the session effects
from Y (i.e., very similar to having adjusted for the effects of interest).

For illustration if we take a single session standard design (i.e., no user
entered regressors) the two ways of processing the data return very similar
results.

1) if you DO adjust for the effects of interest the results are

raw data - whitened confounds (mean column) -> first-eigenvariate  |then in
spm_peb_ppi    first-eigenvariate - whitened confounds.-> Yc.


2) If you DON'T adjust for the effects of interest the results are

raw data  -> first-eigenvariate  |then in spm_peb_ppi    first-eigenvariate
- whitened confounds.-> Yc. 


Thus it all generally comes out very similar in the end.
-------------------------------------------


>
>Second, when setting up a PPI in SPM, what's the difference 
>between not including a particular task from my model, or 
>including it with a weight of 0?

None. Setting the weight to 0 effectively removes it from the model.

--------------

Paul Fletcher has already done a nice job of answering the 3rd question. So
I'll stop now.

Darren


>
>Third, and perhaps most important.  When looking at a PPI on 
>two tasks, A and B, how do we interpret positive and negative 
>PPI results?  My understanding from the Friston paper 
>(Neuroimage, 1997) and from discussions I've had with others 
>is that a positive PPI between two tasks is showing an 
>increase in the correlation between the seed area and the area 
>the result shows up, while a negative PPI result shows a 
>decrease in the correlation. 
>My confusion comes from two things.  First, is this 
>increase/decrease based on the absolute value of the 
>correlation (so an increase is actually saying they're more 
>significantly correlated and a decrease is less significant) 
>or the raw correlation (so going from 0 to 0.9 would be an 
>increase, but so would going from -0.9 to 0).  And the second 
>source of confusion comes from some published papers that 
>report positive PPI results as positive correlations (and 
>negative PPIs as negative correlations) rather than changes in 
>correlation between tasks.  
>
>Thanks
>
>-Mike
>
>Mike Angstadt / Senior Research Coordinator University of 
>Chicago Medical Center / Department of Psychiatry
>5841 South Maryland Avenue, MC 3077
>Chicago, IL 60637
>Phone: 773-834-5942 / Fax: 773-834-4536
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager