Hi Everybody
Hope all is well with you.
Many thanks for that response, Paul. It helped to clarify some of the
"differences between us all" in an accessible and funny way. I felt relieved
that you had managed to answer the question in the way that you did, as I
felt I had taken quite a risk in asking you to "tell me more".
You highlighted tensions around the use of theory and language.
The same issues came up before in your and Paul Moloney's responses to the
question of "What has postmodernism ever done for us?" [thesis and
antithesis]
The question that you and Paul M have put into my head is, "How do we make
our descriptions of what we do sophisticated enough to do what we need them
to do theoretically as well as understandable so that they include the
people we want to support and influence?" [my attempt at synthesis]
In looking for an example of language at "the right level" I am taken back
to David Fryer's description of the practice of critical community
psychology, ie asking the question, "In whose interest is it that this
should be believed?"
That's a really brief, clear description of a complex process: does it,
however, capture the activity of doing critical better than it captures the
activity of doing community?
What do you reckon?
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul@home [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 14 December 2005 12:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On being critical again - clarification
fr om Ian Parker MMU
Hi Carl,
Yes, I'd be happy to. I think it really important that we explore these
difference and diversities. I kind of thought that was what our field was
about, ie., rather us trying to construct a new, homogenous, one size fits
all way of thinking and practicing.
I suppose to charaterise it at is most grotesque the antagonism I feel
between the com psy camps and the crit psy camps at MMU and elsewhere might
be illustrated in the following made-up conversation.
Com Psys: Look here crits, we might share similar politics, but quite
frankly no on can understand a word you say. You just sit around in your
slippers, smoking your pipes, giving sermons on what is wrong with the world
and quoting wierd philosophers and critical theorists who wrote fancy stuff
in the last century. Quite frankly, if you came to talk to the people I work
with, who live in the most appauling conditions of poverty and distress,
they would either slip into a coma or depart in disgust Why don't you start
speaking plain english, get out of your comfy armchairs and do something to
change the world rather than just talk about changing the world?
Crit Psys: Look here coms, we might share similar politics, but quite
frankly your use of language is so imprecise it could be interpreted to mean
anything and everything. While you are jumping up and down on your soap
boxes shouting out for social change and social justice, pretending to know
what the significance of the philosophers and critical theorists we quote
'really' is, your lack of sophisticated, reflexive, theoretical thinking
means you might find your clarion calls for justice being embraced by the
opressors to improve their techniques of oppression rather than by the
oppressed to further their struggles out of oppression.
There, that might stir up some discussion ... perhaps, though I am not
aware of many critical psychologists (both those with qualifications
legitimated by and those with qualifications delegitimated by the higher
education academy) on our list so we might not have as much friction and
exploration of diversities among us as we might hope. Of course, we don't
know about those who are silent partners at present on our list, but it
seems to me that have at least a sprinkling of those who identify themselves
as critical community psychologists (CCPs). I am one, though to achieve
parity with others and have a double-jointed rather than triple jointed
title, I am toying with the idea of dropping the 'psychologist' bit and
calling myself a 'cricial community'.
Of course, as a CC(P), I suppose that under the above characterisation of
the two camps, I mostly speak an unsophisticated goobledook and jump up and
down on my armchair rather than my soap box!
kind regards
p
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Harris Carl (RQ3)
BCH
Sent: 14 December 2005 11:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On being critical again - clarification
fr om Ian Parker MMU
Sorry Paul
I hadn't read this reply to Mark's passing on of Ian Parker's statement
before I sent mine off.
Glad I wasn't the only one who didn't find its effect clarifying. Your
response is very helpful in "contextualising" the statement.
I am also interested to hear more about the frictions between community and
critical staff at the MMU. Not just so that I can tell my colleagues about
it over a hot chocolate, but rather because there are tensions between
people's positions that it probably helps to clarify in this relatively safe
environment.
Can "the" story of the tensions be told without a personalising "he said,
she said" element?
Cheers
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul@home [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 13 December 2005 21:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On being critical again - clarification from
Ian Parker MMU
This is a clear as puddle water to me, I am afraid...
Surely Ian Parker's statement is in relation to his and Mark Burton's
working relationship (as Ian's statement is primarily written in the
personal singular pronoun and I take the 'we' in Ian's message to refer to
Mark and Ian not to collectives of crit and com psychs in and around MMU). I
am not just being pedantic about grammar, I am actually quite upset by the
way we are being invited to read Ian's statement because I am at MMU and I
don't want it read that how Ian and Mark work together necessarily
represents how I and com psychs and crit psychs work together or for that
matter how any
of us work together. If Ian Parker intended for his statement to represent
how all the crit and com psychs
relate to one another at MMU, I will be having words with him over a strong
skinny latte!
I am sorry, but Ian's statement does not clarify the position between those
known as 'critical psychologists' and those known as 'community
psychologists' in and around MMU, it clarifies what one person who is known
as a 'critical psychologist' thinks about his working relationship with one
person known as a 'community psychologist' in and around MMU. I find it
deeply unhelpful for this statement to be used in a way to suggest it says
something more than that. I am a critical community psychologist at MMU and
I see much falling apart between various critcal and community people as I
see falling together. I actually see much friction between the two groups of
people - as a critical-community psychologists at MMU I often fall apart
myself!
Moreoever, this would seem a very wierd email indeed. Why is Ian Parker
making a statement to our list members on his working relationship with Mark
Burton? It should be unclear to us where it has sprung from, unfortunately
it might not. If it has sprung from the content of a private email
correspondence between two list members that was sent accidentally to the
list then perhaps the assumption is that none of us has respected the fact
that it was clearly a piece of private correspondence that was not intended
to be read by the list. As such, it assumes that none of us respected the
privacy of these two list members. I do hope that this email from Mark and
Ian has not sprung
from there. Are we acting as ethically as we should in relation to what we
do with private emails sent accidentally to the list?
I find it very disheartening that if I were ever to accidentally send a
private email to the list that I might have insufficient cause to trust list
members to delete it without reading it. I am certainly going to be very
careful in the furture as to whom I send my online order form for the
complete works of Jeffrey Archer!
paul
-----Original Message-----
From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mark Burton
Sent: 13 December 2005 14:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] On being critical again - clarification from
Ian Parker MMU
Ian Parker has asked me to post this, which clarifies the position between
those known as 'critical psychologists' and those known as 'community
psychologists' in and around the Manchester Metropolitan University (MMU).
__________________________________________________________________
I have seen Mark's provocative contribution on the difference between the
use of a critical theoretical framework on the one hand and the worst of
simple critical complaint on the other.
Mark and I agree about lots of things, but I count him as one of my
comrades in the attempt to engage in genuine constructive critical
theoretical work. There is an overlap between what I try to do under the
rubric 'critical psychology' - in which I take my distance from the
'postmodern' relativist merely academic attempt to carve out
a market niche for the 'criticals' - and what Mark is doing in the sphere of
'community psychology'.
This overlap is where we stand together, community and criticals, at MMU.
Ian Parker
--
From Mark Burton
Manchester UK
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completely free from such problems and we do not accept any liability for
loss or damage which may be caused. This communication is intended solely
for the addressee and is confidential. If you are not the intended
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omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful.
Any information, materials, graphics, and/or opinions posted by the Sender
are those of the respective Sender and do not necessarily reflect the
opinion of Birmingham Children's Hospital NHS Trust unless explicitly
stated to the contrary.
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