One way to think about this is in terms of Bhaskar's distinction between
three models of the individual-society realtionship:
1) methodological individualism, which
".......... asserts that facts about society are to be explained solely in
terms of facts about individuals "
(Bhaskar, 1979, pp 111-112).
- in psychology this is the very 'psychologised', atomistic model of
people in society that we are trying to get away from.
The rejection of methodological individualism does not, however, imply
its inverse -
2) methodological collectivism - which would explain individuals solely in
terms of the social system.
Instead, Bhaskar (1979, 1989)iargues for the transformational model :
[People] do not create society. For it always pre-exists them. Rather it
is an ensemble of structures, practices and conventions that individuals
reproduce or transform, but which would not exist unless they did so.
Society does not exist independently of conscious human activity (the
error of reification). But it is not the product of the latter (the error
of voluntarism).
Bhaskar (1979, p.120)
It is important to note that the transformkational model is not the
untheorised 'interactionist' position taken by much of psychology, but it
goes further by identifying two distinct processes - those of
socialisation (of individuals through their participation in society) and
reproduction (of society through individual and collective actions).
This is perhaps a long winded way of suggesting that we shoudln't throw
out the importance of individual / interpersonal strategies and processes
in our search for anti-individualist ways of working. These have an
important role in the dual processes of socialisation and reproduction (we
might add 'bootstrapping') of and for an alternative, counterhegemonic
community/critical/really social/psychological practice.
> To push the point a little further . .. if the notion and practice of
> mentoring is problematic from a community psychological point of view,
> what about the notion and practice of befriending, and the notion and
> practice of support . . . are they not also, fundamentally, versions of
> intervention through individual / interpersonal change which
> psychologise and depoliticise oppressive power and contribute to the
> recreation and maintenance of external hierarchies of power and
> powerless?
>
> David
>
>
> David Fryer
> Community Psychology Group
> University of Stirling
> FK9 4LA
> Scotland
> +44 (0) 1786 467650 (tel)
> +44 (0) 1786 467641 (fax)
> [log in to unmask]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dawn
> Darlaston-Jones
> Sent: 10 December 2005 1:34 pm
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] (not) Escaping the Critique
>
>
> Dear Colleagues
> David's reply aptly highlights the very difficulties experienced (in my
> view) within community psychology - while trying to work in a different
> (empowering/collegial/collaborative) manner we do in fact (re)position
> ourselves within some form of hieracrhy and therfore reproduce the
> oppression that exists in the very structures we are seeking to change.
> Mentoring in any setting or context is particularly problematic for
> exactly these reasons even though I understand exactly where Diane's
> comment was coming from and what she had in mind ( we have shared many
> conversations on this topic especially in relation to supporting the
> students we interact with daily).
>
> the purpose (again in my view) of this list and others like it is to
> create a space whereby all voices and views are equally validated and
> encouraged - the difficulty is in providing this - if the 'names'
> encourage input from the 'novices' this again reproduces the hierachy,
> if the names don't encourage input from the novices it can be
> interpreted as exclusion - this is the paradox of CP Dawn (on holiday in
> beautiful sunny New York)
>
>
> ________________________________________
>
> Dr. Dawn Darlaston-Jones
> Lecturer
> School of Behavioural Science
> University of Notre Dame
> 19 Mouat Street
> FREMANTLE
> WA 6160
> +61 8 9433 0567
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Fryer <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Saturday, December 10, 2005 6:07 am
> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] (not) Escaping the Critique
>
>> To pick up the theme of how we can collectively organise things so
>> that debate on the list can occur without some on the list being
>> excluded, depowered and disabled and external hierarchies of power
>> and powerless recreated and maintained in our list 'community' .
>> . .
>>
>> There has there been just one serious suggestion so far,
>> mentoring, I think, unless I have missed something, in which case
>> apologies for that? That suggestion was mentoring.
>>
>> But doesn't mentoring have the problem, for those trying to
>> develop community psychology, of being fundamentally a version of
>> intervention through individual / interpersonal cognitive change?
>>
>> And hasn't the way mentoring been presented, so far on the list,
>> assumed the reasons for some being silent on the list are lack of
>> experience and lack of confidence (and also perhaps 'feelings of
>> exclusion' in so far as that is considered a cause as well as a
>> consequence?) i.e. a victim blaming way?
>>
>> And isn't the mentoring intervention being recommended on the
>> grounds of being a relationship in which a person positioned
>> higher in a relevant hierarchy 'checks' the work of a person lower
>> in the hierarchy?
>>
>> But isn't that to recommend recreating and maintaining external
>> hierarchies of power and powerless in our list 'community' rather
>> than challenging them and ultimately isn't it a 'colleaguial'
>> family member of CBT of which, elsewhere on this list, we have
>> been quite properly critical (in connection with Layard)? In
>> considering adopting mentoring, aren't we thereby once more
>> considering adopting another way of psychologising and
>> depoliticising oppressive power?
>>
>> Diane noted that she has become aware through reflecting upon
>> discussion on the list "the rules implicit in claiming a voice".
>> Isn't mentoring a way of living with the rules? Are we able to
>> surface and name the rules more explicitly? Are we able to change
>> the rules? If we cannot change the rules of oppression domination
>> and silencing on our own list, what are the implications for our
>> effectiveness in challenging oppression outside the list?
>>
>> David
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of
>> Diane Costello
>> Sent: Fri 09/12/2005 01:54
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Escaping the Critique
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Annie
>>
>> Thanks for your thoughts and your generosity in sharing of your
>> identity to
>> the list - for possible partnering and mentoring. I will
>> certainly take
>> this on board - and perhaps a memorandum of understanding can be
>> developedto ensure it is not a burden.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Diane
>> ------------
>>
>> Diane Costello
>> Lecturer
>> School of Behavioural Science
>> College of Arts
>> The University of Notre Dame Australia
>> 19 Mouat Street (PO Box 1225)
>> Fremantle, Western Australia 6959
>> Tel: +61 8 9433 0867
>> Fax: +61 8 9433 0210
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>> Internet: www.nd.edu.au
>> CRICOS code: 01032F
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Annie Mitchell
>> Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 6:45 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Escaping the Critique
>>
>> Hi Diane,
>>
>> Mutual mentoring/ induction is a nice idea. Though I'd want it
>> not to
>> simply be a process whereby the "clever experts" induct the
>> newcomers. We
>> all have differing expertises and identities we bring to our
>> exchanges and
>> it would be good to share those around, value them and encourage one
>> another to make inputs from our differing expertises..For example your
>> experience of the barriers you have overcome should be just as
>> valuable to
>> this list as others' experiences of grappling with philosophical
>> issues.
>> I believe we need to bring our differing perspectives together in
>> as equal
>> way as we can - to make sense and take action.
>>
>> I'm sure some sort of mentoring in any case goes on behind the
>> scenes of
>> this list - for example as was revealed through David F's inadvertent
>> posting of background communication; my comments about the linked
>> conversations we had at the southwest network meetings, individual
>> emailsthat go back and forth between colleagues who have
>> relationships outside of
>> this list etc. But the value of a mentor approach could be that
>> we make
>> connections across our usual sub-groups.
>>
>> Anyway, I'd be up for a bit of partnering / mentoring someone whose
>> experiences were complementary to mine: so here are some of my
>> identities.I'm white, female, middle aged, long-term single parent but
>
>> now living in a shared family situation, from a north england
>> comprehensive school background, clinical psychologist working at
>> present in psychology department in an old style university and also
>> in a general hospital offering clinical/community service, with an
>> interest in participatory research. I've occasionally used mental
>> health and complementary healthservices to support me in managing my
>> distress. And I'd like to do more
>> about ecological issues. And i like singing and taking part in drama.
>>
>> BUT I'm aware that this list has recently taken up more of my/ our
>> time
>> than it usually does - as it has been so fascinating. We'd have
>> to be
>> realistic about how much time we could devote to this.
>>
>>
>> Annie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --On 08 December 2005 10:54 +0800 Diane Costello <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you David for clarifying the cultural gap I was
>> experiencing. As a
>> > relative novice to ontological discourse and having overcome the
>> barriers> posed by poverty, single parenting, ethnic minority
>> status, sexism,
>> > disability [just to name a few] -- these discussions have awaken
>> me to
>> > the rules implicit in claiming a voice.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I have been advantaged by these discussions and while I feel
>> overwhelmed> and perhaps a little intimidated it has been an
>> intoxicating experience.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > May I be bold enough to suggest as an initiation process -
>> whereby those
>> > who want an easier transition to the field of CP- be assigned a
>> mentor on
>> > the list to encourage greater contributions from those who may feel
>> > excluded for whatever reason.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Sincere cheers
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Diane
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Diane Costello Assoc MAPS
>> >
>> > Lecturer
>> >
>> > School of Behavioural Science
>> >
>> > College of Arts & Sciences
>> >
>> > The University of Notre Dame Australia
>> >
>> > 19 Mouat Street (PO Box 1225)
>> >
>> > Fremantle, Western Australia 6959
>> >
>> > Tel: +61 8 9433 0867
>> >
>> > Fax: +61 8 9433 0210
>> >
>> > Email: [log in to unmask]
>> >
>> > Internet: www.nd.edu.au
>> >
>> > CRICOS code: 01032F
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
>> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Fryer
>> > Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 8:33 AM
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Escaping the Critique
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear All,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Here are a few personal reflections on recent interesting
>> material posted
>> > to the list.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I have found that Paul and Mike importantly use humour to draw my
>> > attention back to reflection what I want of the list in relation to
>> > community psychology (COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for
>> > community psychology in the UK)?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I do want a forum in which we can read and write about and debate
>> > critical community psychology (CCP for short) at a sophisticated
>> level> but that is not enough for me - I also want a forum in
>> which CCP is
>> > practiced, that in which our actions are in line with the values and
>
>> > assumptions of CCP.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > For me it is central to CCP that it is committed to challenging and
>> > contesting excluding, depowering and disabling practices and
>> unjust and
>> > damaging hierarchies. It is also central to CCP that it is
>> committed to
>> > challenging and contesting individualism and psychologism. I am
>> not, and
>> > do not want to be interpreted as, imputing disreputable
>> intentions or
>> > motives to individual list members in offering critical
>> refection on what
>> > it seems to me to be happening in our list discussion. However
>> my concern
>> > is that we, collectively, are reproducing and maintaining within
>> the list
>> > oppressive power relations outside the list. That is not
>> surprising of
>> > course. When we participate in the list, those of us who 'enjoy'
>> them> cannot individually cast off the privileges and powers that
>> come with
>> > being male in a sexist society, affluent in a materially grossly
>> unequal> society, dominant ethnic group members in a racist society,
>> > disproportionately enabled in a disablist society, educationally
>> > successful in a meritocratic society etc. Nevertheless, whatever
>> the good
>> > intentions and motives and difficulty of doing otherwise, I fear
>> that our
>> > discussion (including my own inputs) sometimes excludes,
>> depowers and
>> > disables others on the list and recreates external socially
>> structured> hierarchies of power and powerless in the list.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On the other hand I think that some of the issues we need to
>> address to
>> > become effective require concepts which ignore or redraw
>> conceptual and
>> > ideological boundaries so I am also grateful for inputs by
>> Grant, Mark
>> > and others. Difficulties in understanding, in my view, are
>> caused not
>> > only by the nature of what one is trying to understand but also
>> by what
>> > one brings with one with which to do the understanding.
>> Immersion in
>> > positivist realist (per)versions of science militates against
>> coming to
>> > understand other notions of what counts as knowledge and other
>> > assumptions about 'what there is'? I think that those believing in
>> > 'modernism' confronted with post-modernism are in some ways in a
>> > comparable position to those who believed the earth was flat
>> confronted> with those who argued the world was round(ish). Our
>> difficulties in
>> > understanding radical ideas are to some extent because we have been
>> > educated not to be able to do so. Our educational practices create
>> > ideological illiteracy?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > So I do think we also need challenges to and support in
>> discussion about
>> > complex for-us, for-now-inaccessible issues using unfamiliar
>> terms and
>> > constructions. A challenge to us all on this community
>> psychology list,
>> > it seems to me, is how to do this without excluding, depowering and
>> > disabling others on the list and recreating and maintaining external
>
>> > hierarchies of power and powerless in our list 'community'. Any
>> ideas> how?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> > From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of
>> Michael> ridley-Dash
>> > Sent: Wed 07/12/2005 20:45
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Escaping the Critique
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Coming from the Frankfurter school of thought I take Bockwurst's
>> 'The> adapted transdimensional exploration of the inner
>> discoursals cavities'
>> > as the really seminal work. In it he argues that the 'Sausage-
>> world' or
>> > as he coins it 'the integral meat-encompassed reality of being'
>> is being
>> > infiltrated by the stodgy maize of imperial capitalism. I find
>> this work
>> > to be best enjoyed whilst studying fluctuations in the housing
>> market,> perhaps accompanyed by the sound of the late-great
>> opulent marxist John
>> > Lennon's 'Imagine' played on a Kazoo.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Cars NEW - sell your car and browse thousands of new and
>> used cars
>> > online search now
>> >
>> > __________________________________________________
>> >
>> > ___________________________________
>> >
>> > COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology
>> in the
>> > UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
>> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any
>> problems or
>> > queries, contact the list moderator at [log in to unmask] or
>> > [log in to unmask]
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > The University of Stirling is a university established in
>> Scotland by
>> > charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential
>> Information may be
>> > contained in this message. If you are not the addressee
>> indicated in this
>> > message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
>> person), you
>> > may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone and any
>> action> taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>> prohibited and may be
>> > unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this message and
>> kindly notify
>> > the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your
>> > employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind.
>
>> > ___________________________________
>> >
>> > COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology
>> in the
>> > UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
>> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML For any
>> problems or
>> > queries, contact the list moderator at [log in to unmask] or
>> > [log in to unmask] ___________________________________
>> >
>> > COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology
>> in the
>> > UK. To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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>> problems or
>> > queries, contact the list moderator at [log in to unmask] or
>> > [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>> Annie Mitchell
>> Lecturer in Psychology,
>> Clinical Director, Doctorate in Clinical and Community Psychology,
>>
>> School of Psychology,
>> Washington Singer Building,
>> University of Exeter,
>> Exeter,
>> EX4 4QG
>>
>> Phone 01392 264621 or
>> Liz Mears, Programme Administrator 01392 403184
>>
>> ___________________________________
>>
>> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in
>> the UK.
>> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/COMMUNITYPSYCHUK.HTML
>> For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator at
>> [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
>>
>> ___________________________________
>>
>> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in
>> the UK.
>> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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>> For any problems or queries, contact the list moderator at
>> [log in to unmask] or [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
>> charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
>> be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
>> in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
>> person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
>> and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
>> prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
>> message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
>> immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
>> for messages of this kind.
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________
>>
>> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in
>> the UK.
>> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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>
> ___________________________________
>
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK - The discussion list for community psychology in the
> UK.
> To unsubscribe or to change your details visit the website:
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> --
> The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
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> be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
> in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
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> ___________________________________
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From Mark Burton
Manchester UK
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