Thanks Jeremy
It just being able to find a specialist disability and human rights
solictors here in the UK to instruct barristers which has been my problem
and that of my advocates toof or over 10 yaers now. Any advice?
Yours
Colin
>From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
>To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
>CC: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled people need our
>own UN Disability Convention?
>Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:50:25 +0100
>
>Dear Colin,
>
>A Declaration is only persuasive in court, and, in the context of Human
>Rights
>law, in Europe we have the stronger European Convention on Human Rights
>(the
>legal status of Conventions is complex, but, put simply, they are stronger
>than
>Declarations).
>
>Treaties create obligations upon the signatories, and these obligations can
>be
>argued in evidence. Thus, the obligations upon the state created by the
>Treaty
>for the Rights of People with Autism can be relied upon in court, but it
>would
>be likely to be a long and expensive process, and may well end up in the
>European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights (I don't
>know
>which court would have jurisdiction, as I don't know, without doing more
>research, which body in Europe is responsible for that treaty. The
>relationship
>(or not) between the two courts I just mentioned is an essay in itself!)
>Lawyers with plenty of experience of this kind of action would be needed to
>navigate the practicalities.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy.
>--
>Jeremy Wickins,
>PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
>Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
>Department of Law,
>University of Sheffield,
>169/171, Northumberland Road,
>Crookesmoor,
>Sheffield. S10 1DF
>UK.
>
>Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
>Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
>
>
>
>Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > Jeremy
> >
> > Thanks! So what legal force does a Declaration have in various Coutries,
>for
> >
> > example can you use a Declaration in a Local, County or High Court in
>the
> > UK? I'm right, you can use a treaty in Court?
> >
> > What about the EU Treaty for the Rights for People with Autism, can that
>be
> > used in a UK Court?
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > >From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > >CC: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled people need
>our
> > >own UN Disability Convention?
> > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:24:26 +0100
> > >
> > >Dear Colin,
> > >
> > >Treaties and Declarations have different status in international law.
> > >Treaties
> > >are international agreements - such as the treaties that created the
> > >European
> > >Union, for instance - and as such are binding on the countries that
>sign up
> >
> > >to
> > >it. The difficulty is usually enforcement, which is, because there is
>no
> > >"world
> > >court", done through diplomatic pressure unless there is a specific
> > >arbitration/court system set up, as there is in the EU, for instance.
> > >
> > >I hope that answers your question - feel free to get back to me if you
>need
> >
> > >any
> > >more information.
> > >
> > >Yours,
> > >
> > >Jeremy.
> > >
> > >--
> > >Jeremy Wickins,
> > >PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
> > >Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
> > >Department of Law,
> > >University of Sheffield,
> > >169/171, Northumberland Road,
> > >Crookesmoor,
> > >Sheffield. S10 1DF
> > >UK.
> > >
> > >Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
> > >Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
> > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > > Then will the UN Disability Treaty, be any different in having
> > > > 'legal-binding' on the signatories ? I know the UK has signed up for
>it,
> >
> > >but
> > > >
> > > > the USA have not?
> > > >
> > > > Yours
> > > >
> > > > Colin
> > > > >From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >CC: [log in to unmask]
> > > > >Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled people
>need
> > >our
> > > > >own UN Disability Convention?
> > > > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:47:48 +0100
> > > > >
> > > > >Dear Colin,
> > > > >
> > > > >The Universal Declaration is not binding on the signatories - that
>is
> > >one
> > > > >of its
> > > > >weaknesses. It is merely a common standard, with no legal force at
>all.
> > > > >
> > > > >Jeremy.
> > > > >--
> > > > >Jeremy Wickins,
> > > > >PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
> > > > >Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
> > > > >Department of Law,
> > > > >University of Sheffield,
> > > > >169/171, Northumberland Road,
> > > > >Crookesmoor,
> > > > >Sheffield. S10 1DF
> > > > >UK.
> > > > >
> > > > >Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
> > > > >Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Cindy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I always thought that the UN Declaration was a 'binding-law'
>within
> > > > > > Internatioanl law for all 'the-states' who signed the UN
>Declartion
> > >for
> > > > > > Human Rights in 1948.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do others know if this correct?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Colin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Cindy Smith <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [DISABILITY-RESEARCH] FW: [DisabilityConvention]
>Why
> > >then
> > > > > > >disabled people need our own UN Disability Convention?
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Hi Colin,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I did some research on this for a class of mine--The Universal
> > > > >Declaration
> > > > > > >is not 'binding law" in that it lists rights that should be
> > >universal
> > > > >to
> > > > > > >all humans but does not require states to sign on to it as
>binding
> > >law
> > > > >in
> > > > > > >their state--therefore it is more a set of ideals whereas the
>UN
> > > > >Convention
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >on Persons with Disabilties--like other conventions--will
>required
> > > > >states
> > > > > > >to sign and ratify for it to enter into force--therefore
>becoming
> > > > >binidng
> > > > > > >law superseeding indiivdual state law--if you go to the
>National
> > > > >Council of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Disability--www.ncd.gov--and type in international human
> > >rights--you'll
> > > >
> > > > >get
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >a bunch of documents that expalin the differences.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Cindy
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > >1/8/05
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >To Everyone
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I will ask you this same question(again), within the UN
>Disability
> > > > > > >Convention and UN Disability Convention-2, like I did over a
>week
> > > > >ago(22nd
> > > > > > >July), but I got no answers, so I'll try again and also send it
>to
> > > > > > >Danmai(UK
> > > > > > >Disability Network) too and Disability Research forum to see if
>I
> > >get
> > > > >any
> > > > > > >answers there??
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >You have got my permission of 'copyleft' to share this with
>others
> > > > >around
> > > > > > >the globe.... Here we go again, so please....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Can someone please explain to be why then disabled people need
>our
> > >own
> > > > >UN
> > > > > > >Disability Convention, when we already have the protection
>within
> > >the
> > > > > > >Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Are we then 'less then human' then?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I need to remind people that...On December 10, 1948 the General
> > > > >Assembly of
> > > > > > >the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal
>Declaration
> >
> > >of
> > > > > > >Human
> > > > > > >Rights. " I can't remember disabled people being 'exluded' from
> > >this,
> > > > >can
> > > > > > >you?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Are not then all disabled people then not given full legal
> > >protection
> > > > >under
> > > > > > >the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, or as I said are we
> > >'aliens
> > > > >from
> > > > > > >a different planet' and not then afforded the 'equal'
>protections
> > > > >within
> > > > > > >these same basic human rights and civil liberties as non
>disabled
> > > > >people?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I've heard that if we don't watch it, that we could be 'cutting
>our
> >
> > >own
> > > > > > >noses off to spite our faces' and falling into a 'deadly-trap'
>and
> > >the
> > > > >UN
> > > > > > >Disability Convention will actually weaken our basic human
>rights
> > >and
> > > > >civil
> > > > > > >liberties, not strenghten them within it's current context.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >So don't say I didn't warn you all!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Yours
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Colin R
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
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