Thanks Jeremy, I will forward you advice onto Dr Jill Aylott, independent
advocate to start making enquiries. You was right to assume that I've
contacted thev Law Society, all can say in my experiences and research they
where 'useless', just like the BAR Council too.
I've made complaints, but you don't seem to get anywhere with public-bodies
using complaints procedures and you just go around in circles. They are used
as delaying tactics in disabled people cases, like that of all the Ombudsman
too.
Luke Clements and Janet Read are right that disabled people are not being
afforded the basic human and civil rights, in the UK to 'natural-justice'.
This is an understatement in my experiences, which I've used for
'Action-Research'.
I have lobbied and complained and protested everywhere, if you have heard of
my reputation, as a disabled activist, within the global disability
movement.
All I can say that discriminatory '(dis)abilist' attitudes and behaviour are
'institutionalised' through the legal system, Courts and all public-bodies
in the UK and we've got a lot of work to do.
I experience this everyday where I live by Eastt Riding of Yorkshire Council
and all local NHS Trusts.
Prehaps we 'disabled people' should develop a website and 'whistle-blow' and
develop a league table of the worst public bodies in the UK
'institutionalised-(dis)abilism'. What do you think, any takers?
Yours
Colin. Jeremy advice below for Dr Aylott....
Dear Colin,
sorry about the delay. I am obviously unaware of any details about your
situation, but I assume that you are in England or Wales from some comments
you have made. I don't know what area of law you think you need, but one way
would be to contact the Law Society, who regulate solicitors in England and
Wales, though it is likely that you have already done this.
Another way, which has only been available since last year, is to approach a
barrister directly. Because this is new, I suggest you first have a look at
http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/document.asp?languageid=1&documentid=2733#ParaLink,
which explains things. You can also use the Bar Council website to look for
barristers in your area. However, it may be worth finding which chambers
Lord
Lester of Herne Hill occupies - he is very much into human rights - and
talking to his clerk (it will be in London). Doing it this way might get
suggestions as to which solicitors to approach.
I'm sorry I can't be of much more help - this is where my ignorance of
practical law shows itself!
I hope this has helped a bit.
Yours,
Jeremy.
--
Jeremy Wickins,
PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
Department of Law,
University of Sheffield,
169/171, Northumberland Road,
Crookesmoor,
Sheffield. S10 1DF
UK.
Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
>From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
>To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled people need our
>own UN Disability Convention?
>Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 17:59:32 +0100
>
>Dear Colin,
>
>sorry about the delay. I am obviously unaware of any details about your
>situation, but I assume that you are in England or Wales from some comments
>you
>have made. I don't know what area of law you think you need, but one way
>would
>be to contact the Law Society, who regulate solicitors in England and
>Wales,
>though it is likely that you have already done this.
>
>Another way, which has only been available since last year, is to approach
>a
>barrister directly. Because this is new, I suggest you first have a look at
>http://www.barcouncil.org.uk/document.asp?languageid=1&documentid=2733#ParaLink,
>which explains things. You can also use the Bar Council website to look for
>barristers in your area. However, it may be worth finding which chambers
>Lord
>Lester of Herne Hill occupies - he is very much into human rights - and
>talking
>to his clerk (it will be in London). Doing it this way might get
>suggestions as
>to which solicitors to approach.
>
>I'm sorry I can't be of much more help - this is where my ignorance of
>practical
>law shows itself!
>
>I hope this has helped a bit.
>
>Yours,
>
>Jeremy.
>--
>Jeremy Wickins,
>PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
>Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
>Department of Law,
>University of Sheffield,
>169/171, Northumberland Road,
>Crookesmoor,
>Sheffield. S10 1DF
>UK.
>
>Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
>Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
>
>
>
>Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > Thanks Jeremy
> >
> > It just being able to find a specialist disability and human rights
> > solictors here in the UK to instruct barristers which has been my
>problem
> > and that of my advocates toof or over 10 yaers now. Any advice?
> >
> > Yours
> >
> > Colin
> >
> > >From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
> > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > >CC: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled people need
>our
> > >own UN Disability Convention?
> > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:50:25 +0100
> > >
> > >Dear Colin,
> > >
> > >A Declaration is only persuasive in court, and, in the context of Human
> > >Rights
> > >law, in Europe we have the stronger European Convention on Human Rights
> > >(the
> > >legal status of Conventions is complex, but, put simply, they are
>stronger
> > >than
> > >Declarations).
> > >
> > >Treaties create obligations upon the signatories, and these obligations
>can
> >
> > >be
> > >argued in evidence. Thus, the obligations upon the state created by the
> > >Treaty
> > >for the Rights of People with Autism can be relied upon in court, but
>it
> > >would
> > >be likely to be a long and expensive process, and may well end up in
>the
> > >European Court of Justice or the European Court of Human Rights (I
>don't
> > >know
> > >which court would have jurisdiction, as I don't know, without doing
>more
> > >research, which body in Europe is responsible for that treaty. The
> > >relationship
> > >(or not) between the two courts I just mentioned is an essay in
>itself!)
> > >Lawyers with plenty of experience of this kind of action would be
>needed to
> > >navigate the practicalities.
> > >
> > >Yours,
> > >
> > >Jeremy.
> > >--
> > >Jeremy Wickins,
> > >PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
> > >Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
> > >Department of Law,
> > >University of Sheffield,
> > >169/171, Northumberland Road,
> > >Crookesmoor,
> > >Sheffield. S10 1DF
> > >UK.
> > >
> > >Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
> > >Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
> > >
> > > > Jeremy
> > > >
> > > > Thanks! So what legal force does a Declaration have in various
>Coutries,
> >
> > >for
> > > >
> > > > example can you use a Declaration in a Local, County or High Court
>in
> > >the
> > > > UK? I'm right, you can use a treaty in Court?
> > > >
> > > > What about the EU Treaty for the Rights for People with Autism, can
>that
> >
> > >be
> > > > used in a UK Court?
> > > >
> > > > Yours
> > > >
> > > > Colin
> > > >
> > > > >From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > >CC: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
> > > > >Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled people
>need
> > >our
> > > > >own UN Disability Convention?
> > > > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:24:26 +0100
> > > > >
> > > > >Dear Colin,
> > > > >
> > > > >Treaties and Declarations have different status in international
>law.
> > > > >Treaties
> > > > >are international agreements - such as the treaties that created
>the
> > > > >European
> > > > >Union, for instance - and as such are binding on the countries that
> > >sign up
> > > >
> > > > >to
> > > > >it. The difficulty is usually enforcement, which is, because there
>is
> > >no
> > > > >"world
> > > > >court", done through diplomatic pressure unless there is a specific
> > > > >arbitration/court system set up, as there is in the EU, for
>instance.
> > > > >
> > > > >I hope that answers your question - feel free to get back to me if
>you
> > >need
> > > >
> > > > >any
> > > > >more information.
> > > > >
> > > > >Yours,
> > > > >
> > > > >Jeremy.
> > > > >
> > > > >--
> > > > >Jeremy Wickins,
> > > > >PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
> > > > >Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
> > > > >Department of Law,
> > > > >University of Sheffield,
> > > > >169/171, Northumberland Road,
> > > > >Crookesmoor,
> > > > >Sheffield. S10 1DF
> > > > >UK.
> > > > >
> > > > >Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
> > > > >Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jeremy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then will the UN Disability Treaty, be any different in having
> > > > > > 'legal-binding' on the signatories ? I know the UK has signed up
>for
> >
> > >it,
> > > >
> > > > >but
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the USA have not?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yours
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Colin
> > > > > > >From: Jeremy Wickins <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > >CC: [log in to unmask]
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: FW: [DisabilityConvention] Why then disabled
>people
> > >need
> > > > >our
> > > > > > >own UN Disability Convention?
> > > > > > >Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 12:47:48 +0100
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Dear Colin,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >The Universal Declaration is not binding on the signatories -
>that
> > >is
> > > > >one
> > > > > > >of its
> > > > > > >weaknesses. It is merely a common standard, with no legal force
>at
> > >all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Jeremy.
> > > > > > >--
> > > > > > >Jeremy Wickins,
> > > > > > >PhD Researcher, Biometrics and Social Exclusion,
> > > > > > >Sheffield Institute of Biotechnological Law and Ethics (SIBLE),
> > > > > > >Department of Law,
> > > > > > >University of Sheffield,
> > > > > > >169/171, Northumberland Road,
> > > > > > >Crookesmoor,
> > > > > > >Sheffield. S10 1DF
> > > > > > >UK.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Tel: +44 (0)114 222 6881
> > > > > > >Fax: +44 (0)114 222 6886
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Quoting Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cindy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I always thought that the UN Declaration was a 'binding-law'
> > >within
> > > > > > > > Internatioanl law for all 'the-states' who signed the UN
> > >Declartion
> > > > >for
> > > > > > > > Human Rights in 1948.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Do others know if this correct?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yours
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Colin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Cindy Smith <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > > >To: Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [DISABILITY-RESEARCH] FW:
>[DisabilityConvention]
> > >Why
> > > > >then
> > > > > > > > >disabled people need our own UN Disability Convention?
> > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Hi Colin,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I did some research on this for a class of mine--The
>Universal
> > > > > > >Declaration
> > > > > > > > >is not 'binding law" in that it lists rights that should be
> > > > >universal
> > > > > > >to
> > > > > > > > >all humans but does not require states to sign on to it as
> > >binding
> > > > >law
> > > > > > >in
> > > > > > > > >their state--therefore it is more a set of ideals whereas
>the
> > >UN
> > > > > > >Convention
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >on Persons with Disabilties--like other conventions--will
> > >required
> > > > > > >states
> > > > > > > > >to sign and ratify for it to enter into force--therefore
> > >becoming
> > > > > > >binidng
> > > > > > > > >law superseeding indiivdual state law--if you go to the
> > >National
> > > > > > >Council of
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Disability--www.ncd.gov--and type in international human
> > > > >rights--you'll
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >get
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >a bunch of documents that expalin the differences.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Cindy
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Colin Revell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >1/8/05
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >To Everyone
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I will ask you this same question(again), within the UN
> > >Disability
> > > > > > > > >Convention and UN Disability Convention-2, like I did over
>a
> > >week
> > > > > > >ago(22nd
> > > > > > > > >July), but I got no answers, so I'll try again and also
>send it
> >
> > >to
> > > > > > > > >Danmai(UK
> > > > > > > > >Disability Network) too and Disability Research forum to
>see if
> >
> > >I
> > > > >get
> > > > > > >any
> > > > > > > > >answers there??
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >You have got my permission of 'copyleft' to share this with
> > >others
> > > > > > >around
> > > > > > > > >the globe.... Here we go again, so please....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Can someone please explain to be why then disabled people
>need
> > >our
> > > > >own
> > > > > > >UN
> > > > > > > > >Disability Convention, when we already have the protection
> > >within
> > > > >the
> > > > > > > > >Universal Declaration of Human Rights?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Are we then 'less then human' then?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I need to remind people that...On December 10, 1948 the
>General
> > > > > > >Assembly of
> > > > > > > > >the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal
> > >Declaration
> > > >
> > > > >of
> > > > > > > > >Human
> > > > > > > > >Rights. " I can't remember disabled people being 'exluded'
>from
> > > > >this,
> > > > > > >can
> > > > > > > > >you?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Are not then all disabled people then not given full legal
> > > > >protection
> > > > > > >under
> > > > > > > > >the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, or as I said are
>we
> > > > >'aliens
> > > > > > >from
> > > > > > > > >a different planet' and not then afforded the 'equal'
> > >protections
> > > > > > >within
> > > > > > > > >these same basic human rights and civil liberties as non
> > >disabled
> > > > > > >people?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >I've heard that if we don't watch it, that we could be
>'cutting
> >
> > >our
> > > >
> > > > >own
> > > > > > > > >noses off to spite our faces' and falling into a
>'deadly-trap'
> > >and
> > > > >the
> > > > > > >UN
> > > > > > > > >Disability Convention will actually weaken our basic human
> > >rights
> > > > >and
> > > > > > >civil
> > > > > > > > >liberties, not strenghten them within it's current context.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >So don't say I didn't warn you all!!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Yours
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Colin R
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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