JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for VLE Archives


VLE Archives

VLE Archives


VLE@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

VLE Home

VLE Home

VLE  June 2005

VLE June 2005

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: MOODLE with LAMS

From:

Helen Foster <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Virtual Learning Environments <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:59:10 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (423 lines)

Re. Moodle scalability, please check Martin Dougiamas' comment about
LAMP configuration for potentially 17,000 users:
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=23164&parent=109338&username=g
uest 

Helen Foster


-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Laurence Fouweather
Sent: 08 June 2005 15:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS

Re Scalability - its not just the hardware speed/ram size etc that
affects
how scaleable a product is - eventually (depending on the OS) the system
will simply run out of steam. This is due to the way the software is put
together and how it handles multiple threads etc. 

This is why for large scale transaction processing systems ( which is
what
some VLE's are these days- look at what some of the large US State
Universities are doing - 20,000+ users are not unusual) many
organisations
use systems that distribute the load across applications and database
servers running things like ORACLE and SQL Server with load balancing
rather
than MySQL. 

I really like MySQL but would not dream of using it for an application
with
1000's of users. As far as I know a multiple server set up to provide
one
virtual system is not yet possible with Moodle - (which I also like -
but
only for the right size and scope of environment) 

What is important I think, is to define what you are trying to achieve,
size
the specification and plan for rapid growth, look at all the possible
solutions, carefully look at ALL the costs of ownership and not just the
capital costs, then make a choice which is the closest fit to your
particular application and organisation. 

Whether it is open source or not must of course be factored in - but
with a
very careful look at the costs and benefits involved - don't forget
existing
staff still cost money unless they are all working for the love of it! 

Laurence 

Laurence Fouweather
Director
Oxford Academic Technology Ltd
Tel:      +44 (0)1865 451 670
Mobile  +44 (0)7968 692 380
Fax      +44 (0)7813 889 526
Web     www.oxact.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of
Luke Bennett, Production Manager, The Guardian Learnthings
Sent: 08 June 2005 14:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS

Hi

I can not comment directly on the scalability of Moodle the biggest
factors
are the speed of the processors of machine installed, the amount of
memory
and the speed of disk access and network bandwidth. MySql is a
enterprise
class platform and much OS software is used by large commercial
organisations, for example MySql for NLN/Becta/Granada Learning CAT
service
at the JISC National Computer Centre at Manchester Computing,
http://nln.mimas.ac.uk. The BBC use Apache over Linux, interestingly if
you
vist  http://www.netcraft.com/ you can discover what people are running.
Are you aware of what IBM are running? It is interesting that Novel,
widely
used in HE education has recently made Linux acquisitions for server and
desktop and plans to offer migration paths from Netware. I feel the bit
we
are trying to get our head around is the fact that 'its free'. The fact
is
people build OS software because they can:

1. Earn a living doing what they are passionate about 2. Be part of
something much bigger 3, The web has allowed anyone to compete in the
market
place without the traditional costs associated with launching and
marketing
a product.

Yes we need to know what's scalable, try and get specifications or
testimonials from leading commercial suppliers. Consider that Hull use
an
implementation of uPortal, on a modest box which is capable of handling
large amounts of traffic. To get things up and running this community is
a
great place to start as someone out there has often done it and is
willing
to share their experience.

Luke Bennett

The Guardian, Learnthings
Production Manager
www.learnpremium.co.uk

5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
London EC1M 3JU

Mobile: 07977 059 183



|---------+-------------------------------------------->
|         |           Stuart Lee                       |
|         |           <[log in to unmask]
|         |           FORD.AC.UK>                      |
|         |           Sent by: Virtual Learning        |
|         |           Environments <[log in to unmask]>|
|         |                                            |
|         |                                            |
|         |           08/06/2005 12:47                 |
|         |           Please respond to Virtual        |
|         |           Learning Environments            |
|         |           <[log in to unmask]>             |
|         |                                            |
|---------+-------------------------------------------->
 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
--------------------|
  |
|
  |        To:      [log in to unmask]
|
  |        cc:      (bcc: Luke Bennett/Learn/GNL)
|
  |        Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
|
 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
--------------------|




Tim,

You are correct in identifying the issue but one must defend the use of
free. If a shop gives you a new burglar alarm system without asking for
any
money (i.e. all you had to do was go in and pick it up) you would, I
suggest, happily define it as free, even though it may take you time to
attach it to your house and test it. In this sense of the word Moodle
*is*
free.

However, as you rightly point out everything comes with a cost. Yet
there
are ways of reducing that cost with open source products, which in my
opinion are not open to you with a commercial product.

I can't comment on the ease of installing Moodle but from what I have
heard
most people say it is straightforward enough. I'd be interested in
knowing
how people find the scalability of it. Are people confident that it can
cope
with large numbers of users, and that PHP is a robust/secure enough for
a
large enterprise system? I don't have an opinion either way but just
interested to hear what people think,

Stuart

************************************************************************
***
Dr Stuart D Lee                 | Head of the Learning Technologies
Oxford University Computing     | Group (http://www.oucs.ox.ac.uk/ltg/)
Services                        |
13 Banbury Road                 | Member of the English Faculty
Oxford OX2 6NN
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
E-mail: [log in to unmask]; Tel: +44 1865 283403; Fax: +44 1865
273275; URL: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~stuart/

Bodington VLE/LMS (Free): http://www.bodington.org.uk/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

On Wed, 8 Jun 2005, Harrison Tim (Staff) wrote:

> Could we please stop referring to moodle as a 'free' system. It is not

> and never will be. As has been mentioned dozens of times before, the 
> cost of implementing a vle is not just the software, it includes the 
> training and all the other bits that go into it. The same is true of 
> LAMS.
>
> I found moodle very difficult to install not because of moodle itself 
> but because of the other software it required, php and mysql. Getting 
> the right versions to talk with the software can be very fiddly, 
> particularly if you want to use Windows. I was very much left with the

> impression that upgrades etc would be totally dependant on other 
> factors that I am simply not prepared to use it. I am also very 
> concerned that, for a mission critical system, not having any redress 
> against the writers or guaranteed maintenance is not acceptable.
>
> Tim Harrison
> Colchester SFC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Virtual Learning Environments [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On 
> Behalf Of Luke Bennett, Production Manager, The Guardian Learnthings
> Sent: 08 June 2005 10:35
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
>
> Hi Andy
>
> That is a good point well made, importing 1600 Content Packages is a 
> drag!
> What will happen if NLN Materials are repurposed and released to other

> sectors, like schools. MOODLELAMS will provide HE/FE/Schools and ACL a

> free to use turn-key solution. To make this bullet proof the best way 
> to deliver content would be through a web service, where content is 
> pushed to learning systems. We are too reliant on mundane jobs that 
> are difficult to manage, we need to offer systems that let people 
> concentrate on the learning and how they use content. Will the JORUM 
> National Repository offer a web service to surface content? Such a 
> service would change the face of e-learning.
>
> Luke Bennett
>
> The Guardian, Learnthings
> Production Manager
> www.learnpremium.co.uk
>
> 5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
> London EC1M 3JU
>
> Mobile: 07977 059 183
>
>
>
>
>
>                       Andrew Dudfield
>
>                       <andrew.dudfield@BE         To:
> [log in to unmask]
>
>                       CTA.ORG.UK>                 cc:      (bcc: Luke
> Bennett/Learn/GNL)
>                       Sent by: Virtual            Subject: Re: [VLES]
> MOODLE with LAMS
>                       Learning
>
>                       Environments
>
>                       <[log in to unmask]
>
>                       >
>
>
>
>
>
>                       08/06/2005 10:08
>
>                       Please respond to
>
>                       Virtual Learning
>
>                       Environments
>
>                       <[log in to unmask]
>
>                       >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have to agree with the comments Luke made here. I see point one (the

> bulk import of content packages) to be hugely important. We here at 
> the NLN have produced 1600 packages, and it is hugely frustrating for 
> our users to have to import (and then classify and assign) the 
> packages one by one.
>
> I believe that with a more general/standardised adoption of metadata, 
> even at quite a low level, the materials could be imported as a batch 
> process. Surely one of the reasons why a XML manifest based content 
> production method is used by a lot of people in the first place is the

> power and flexibility of automatic process?
>
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luke Bennett, Production Manager, The Guardian Learnthings 
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 08 June 2005 09:48
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VLES] MOODLE with LAMS
>
> Hi All
>
> Moodle and LAMS integration will have a massive impact on the 
> landscape of the VLE marketplace. Commercial VLE providers will have 
> to revisit their systems. Three things that would  add significant 
> value to the offering would be:
>
> 1. Bulk import of IMS Content Packages 2. Out the box integration with

> Windows Active Directory 3. Search functionality based on IMS metadata
>
> Does anybody in the community know if any of the above are in the 
> making?
> Since a Colossus is in the making why not make the order taller?
>
>
> Luke Bennett
>
> The Guardian, Learnthings
> Production Manager
> www.learnpremium.co.uk
>
> 5th Floor, 79 Farringdon Road
> London EC1M 3JU
>
> Mobile: 07977 059 183
>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember - 
> replies go by default to the entire list.
> Access the list via the web on 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
> To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave 
> vle
>
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
> intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they 
> are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify 
> the system manager.
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by 
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses.
> www.mimesweeper.com
> **********************************************************************
>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember - 
> replies go by default to the entire list.
> Access the list via the web on 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
> To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave 
> vle
>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember - 
> replies go by default to the entire list.
> Access the list via the web on 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
> To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave 
> vle
>
> ***************** List information: ***************** Remember - 
> replies go by default to the entire list.
> Access the list via the web on 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
> To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave 
> vle
>

***************** List information: ***************** Remember - replies
go
by default to the entire list.
Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave
vle

***************** List information: ***************** Remember - replies
go
by default to the entire list.
Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave
vle

***************** List information: *****************
Remember - replies go by default to the entire list.
Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave
vle

***************** List information: *****************
Remember - replies go by default to the entire list.
Access the list via the web on http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/vle.html
To unsubscribe, email [log in to unmask] with the message: leave vle

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
2004
2003
2002
2001


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager