medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Is anyone aware of someone possessing a transcription of Wyclif's De Tempore? Breck is rumored to have made one before he died, but all attempts to locate it thus far have been unfruitful.
Cordially,
Lesley-Anne Dyer
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Subject: MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Digest - 12 Apr 2005 to 13 Apr 2005 (#2005-101)
There are 5 messages totalling 317 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. saints of the day 13. April
2. saints of the day 12. April
3. Quinze joies (2)
4. John Briggs' e-mail address
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:38:41 -0700
From: Phyllis Jestice <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: saints of the day 13. April
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Today (13. April) is the feast day of:
Martius (d. 530) Martius became a hermit when a young man. He
attracted disciples and organized them into a community of monks at
Clermont (Auvergne).
Hermenegild (d. 585) Hermenegild was a Visigothic prince in Spain
who converted to catholic Christianity. His father, King Leovigild,
disinherited H, upon which H. led a revolt against his dad. H. lost,
but was reconciled with his father. But Leovigild demanded H's
return to Arian Christianity, and when H. refused, Leovigild had him
done to death with an axe.
Martin I (d. c. 656) Martin was a native of Todi. He moved to Rome,
where he was known for his great learning and piety; he served as
Pope Theodore I's ambassador to Constantinople and became pope
himself in 649. As pope, Martin didn't get along with the eastern
church. He called a council that condemned monothelitism and
censured several imperial decrees. Emperor Constans II (a
monothelite) was outraged and sent troops to Rome to fetch Martin for
trial. They broke into the Lateran palace and dragged M. off to
Constantinople in the fall of 653. He was imprisoned under awful
conditions for several months and then convicted of treason without
being allowed to defend himself. The patriarch of Constantinople
begged for M's life, so M was sent off to exile in the Crimea, where
he died of ill treatment. M. is the last pope venerated as a martyr.
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Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:54:51 -0500
From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: saints of the day 12. April
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
On Monday=2C April 11=2C 2005=2C at 7=3A35 pm=2C Phyllis wrote=3A
=3E Today (12=2E April) is the feast day of=3A
=3E Alferius (d=2E 1050) Alferius was a noble of Salerno=2E He contracte=
d a
=3E serious illness while on a mission to the French court=2C and vowed t=
o
=3E enter the religious life if he were cured=2E He did indeed recover a=
nd
=3E became a monk at Cluny=2E Duke Gisulf of Salerno soon brought A back=
=3E home to reform monasteries in the duchy=2E A=2E was unsuccessful and=
=3E became a hermit=2E The disciples he attracted were formed into the
=3E monastery of La Cava=2E A=27s cult was formally approved in 1893=2E
Referring=2C as does Phyllis=27 source=2C to the southern Lombard
principalities as duchies and to their rulers as dukes conforms with the
in this case usually insubstantial pretensions of Western Imperial style
but not with the practices of the Lombard rulers themselves=2C of the
Roman Empire of the East=2C and of recent historians of early medieval
southern Italy concerned to reflect somewhat accurately the ordinary
realities of power in this region=2E Calling this particular ruler of
Salerno =22duke=22 also departs from the text of our chief source for A=2E=
=27s
life=2C abbot Peter II of Santissima Trinit=E0 at Venosa=27s =5FVitae qua=
tuor
priorum abbatum Cavensium=5F=2C where Gisulf is referred to more than onc=
e as
=27princeps=27 and never as =27dux=27=2E
Modern historians are also somewhat less inclined than is Phyllis=27
source to accept abbot Peter at his word when he names the prince
in question Gisulf=2E This cannot have been Gisulf II=2C the last Lombar=
d
prince of Salerno=2C who succeeded to that office in 1052=2C when A=2E wa=
s
already dead=2E Gisulf I=27s rule ended in 977=3B since Peter says that =
G=2E
had sent A=2E on a diplomatic mission to Germany prior to A=2E=27s missio=
n to
France and subsequent entry into monastic life at Cluny=2C A=2E will have=
had to have been born ca=2E 940 at the very latest=2E And=2C indeed=2C a=
bbot
Peter says that A=2E was aged 120 when he died=2E Since that would be
little short of miraculous=2C it seems better to suppose that Peter was
misinformed about the identity of the prince in question and perhaps=2C i=
f
he did not merely miscaculate on the basis of the wrong prince=2C that he=
was also misinformed as to A=2E=27s true age at death=2E The current fav=
orite
is Guaimar III (ruled 999-1027)=2E =
Best=2C
John Dillon
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:03:52 +0200
From: Erik Drigsdahl <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quinze joies
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Sorry Tom, - to say it is 'discussed' is somewhat of an overstatement.
Victor Leroquais has chosen a single text and transformed it from
medieval french to make it comprehensible to modern readers.
His version is far from any 15th c. text I have seen, and he
does not mention the immense variety found in the composition of
the prayers (especially the petition attached to each of the joys).
He has made no attempt to date its first occurrence in any of the
manuscripts in the Bibliotheque Nationale.
His 'edition' of the text has been available on my own website since
1997*; Had it served its purpose would there be no need to prepare
another. Students of manuscripts feel helpless when they compare
their own readings with his heavily edited 'ideal' modern version.
Only to mention one problem: All have the spelling "[noces] archedeclin"
No manuscript has 'noces archetriclin' as Leroquais pretend to read it!
Students are too often discouraged by such non existing incongruencies.
I would like to comfort them with a clear message: Common sense
has not been or never should be suspended in scholarship.
Best
Erik Drigsdahl
PS: *Cf. http://www.chd.dk/tutor/15joys.html
At 21:42 +0200 12/04/05, Thomas Izbicki wrote:
>This text is discussed in V. Leroquais, Les livres d'heures manuscripts
>de la Bibliotheque Nationale... (Macon, 1943).
>Tom Izbicki
_____________________________________________________________________
Mag.art. Erik Drigsdahl CHD Center for Haandskriftstudier i Danmark
Kapelvej 25B 3.tv Phone: +45 +35 37 20 47
DK-2200 Copenhagen N Email: <[log in to unmask]>
DENMARK http://www.chd.dk
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Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:14:32 -0400
From: Thomas Izbicki <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Quinze joies
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Erik,
I had not looked at the text in multiple years ago, when I was
inventorying our medieval & Renaissance MSS. I recall not being
impressed, but that was why I did not claim it as an edition.
Tom Izbicki
Thomas Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns Hopkins
Baltimore, MD 21218
(410)516-7173
fax (410)516-8399
>>> [log in to unmask] 04/13/05 5:03 AM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
Sorry Tom, - to say it is 'discussed' is somewhat of an overstatement.
Victor Leroquais has chosen a single text and transformed it from
medieval french to make it comprehensible to modern readers.
His version is far from any 15th c. text I have seen, and he
does not mention the immense variety found in the composition of
the prayers (especially the petition attached to each of the joys).
He has made no attempt to date its first occurrence in any of the
manuscripts in the Bibliotheque Nationale.
His 'edition' of the text has been available on my own website since
1997*; Had it served its purpose would there be no need to prepare
another. Students of manuscripts feel helpless when they compare
their own readings with his heavily edited 'ideal' modern version.
Only to mention one problem: All have the spelling "[noces]
archedeclin"
No manuscript has 'noces archetriclin' as Leroquais pretend to read
it!
Students are too often discouraged by such non existing
incongruencies.
I would like to comfort them with a clear message: Common sense
has not been or never should be suspended in scholarship.
Best
Erik Drigsdahl
PS: *Cf. http://www.chd.dk/tutor/15joys.html
At 21:42 +0200 12/04/05, Thomas Izbicki wrote:
>This text is discussed in V. Leroquais, Les livres d'heures
manuscripts
>de la Bibliotheque Nationale... (Macon, 1943).
>Tom Izbicki
_____________________________________________________________________
Mag.art. Erik Drigsdahl CHD Center for Haandskriftstudier i Danmark
Kapelvej 25B 3.tv Phone: +45 +35 37 20 47
DK-2200 Copenhagen N Email: <[log in to unmask]>
DENMARK http://www.chd.dk
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:05:16 -0700
From: Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: John Briggs' e-mail address
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Pardon the intrusion of the non-medieval in our list... I sent a message to
John Briggs which came back "undeliverable." (The message, not John Briggs.)
If he would contact me off-list, I could respond to him. The response is not
for the list in general.
MG
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End of MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Digest - 12 Apr 2005 to 13 Apr 2005 (#2005-101)
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