JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Archives


MEDIEVAL-RELIGION@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Home

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  January 2005

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION January 2005

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: St. Peter's Mystery Accessories

From:

Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 28 Jan 2005 13:27:01 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (151 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

From: Chris Laning <[log in to unmask]>

> Not all the experts have weighed in yet on the mailing list I posted
Christopher's question to, but the consensus so far is that the thing on the
right is either a knife in a sheath, or one of those portable inkhorn + penner
things that scribes carry.


my original thought.

but: 

1) it seems *awfuly* small to be even a pen knife;

b) there is just that little round tip of the handle sticking up, hardly
enough to grab aholt of ;

iii) Peter is not noted for being a "writer", as best i can recall, so this
attribute (if it is some kind of attribute) would be rather unusual.

to the last point one might say that these objects *are* rather unusual,
whateverthahell they are.
 
> The hanging strap with "holes", in this concept, is some sort of reinforcing
or stiffening strip on the left-hand edge of the object, and the "holes" are
very likely to be decorative metal studs. 

this is possible, of course --this sculptor likes to use the drill quite a
lot.

note the multiple "decorative" groupings of three drill holes elsewhere on the
figures' garments

http://www.christophersbookroom.com/cc/nazareth/bagatti/colfigs/bagatti-pl42.jpg

such triangular groupings of drill holes are found in quite a few manuscript
and fresco paintings --as well as sculptures-- in the 12th c., and this
sculptor uses them a *lot* on other figures found at Nazareth.

they don't appear to have been filled with glass paste or lead --as, for
instance, the pupils of eyes are sometimes treated-- but may have been.

the drill holes on the thin leather strap could have been (intended to be)
filled as well, in which case they wouldn't have been holes at all but, as you
say, "decorative metal studs".

i personally don't think that this is the case, however --a damned strange
"decoration".

they look like they are there for the same purpose as are the holes in a belt
--some kind of mechanism for adjusting something (quite carefully), for some
reason.

>The short horizontal strip near the top would be the top edge of the sheath
(or narrow pouch) 

yes.

>and the rounded thing seen above that line would be the end of the knife
handle 

viday soupra : too small.

>(or the rounded end of the pen-case). 

an idea.

what do "pen cases" look like, eggsactly?

>This makes sense to me.

whatever.

Any Port in a Storm. 

> Everybody's baffled so far on the heart-shaped object. 

heheheheehehe.

>I didn't tell them any of the other guesses that have been made, 

yes, when doing a true Rhorschach test you don't want to spoil the results by
prejudicial suggestions.

>and at least two people on the other list immediately said that it looks a
lot like a fan except that it's much too small -- which was also my first
thought.

and a good thought it was, too.

too bad it is wrong.

very unfair, somehow.

http://www.christophersbookroom.com/cc/nazareth/bagatti/colfigs/bagatti-pl43-4-d.jpg


From: Nicole Morgan Schulman <[log in to unmask]>

> Could it be a pomander?
> 
> Just a guess.

*some* folks on this list might not even know what a "pomander" is.

for the dispellation of Suchlike Ignorance:

Main Entry: po·man·der 
Pronunciation: 'pO-"man-d&r, pO-'
Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English, modification of Middle French pome d'ambre,
literally, apple or ball of amber

1 : a mixture of aromatic substances enclosed in a perforated bag or box and
used to scent clothes and linens or formerly carried as a guard against
infection; also : a clove-studded orange or apple used for the same purposes
2 : a box or hollow fruit-shaped ball for holding pomander 


in this interpretation, i imagine that the Dingus would be made of metal(??),
and what appears to be a ring of "beading" is actually perforations.

i'd like to see a painting or --morebetter-- an actual surviving exemplar of
suchlike an object before i give up the idea that it's a snuffbox or a
Keepsake Locket, however.

thanks to all.

Perseverance Furthers.

we're almost there.

or not.

c

**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager