JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities
















By Topic:










By Author:











Proportional Font








Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Re: metal decorations on clothing


Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]>


Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture <[log in to unmask]>


Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:47:10 -0500





text/plain (203 lines)

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

From: Chris Laning <[log in to unmask]>

> Well, as a minor DISTAFF flunky <g> I can put in my two cents' worth, 

it is against my religion to refuse the offer of money --in any amount-- from
even the lowliest of flunkies, Distaff ones or otherwise.

> Christopher wrote:


>>he wears a cord-belt, below and to the left of the knot of which is
suspended this curious object, carved in low relief on the smooth area of the
fabric just there :


>> it appears to be some sort of "heart-shaped" object, suspended from a wound
cord smaller in diameter than the cord which serves as Peter's belt.

> Hmmmmmm. <strokes chin thoughtfully><grin>

that's what i was after : Different Strokes, from Different Folks.

> If it weren't for the very small scale of this object in relation to the
figure as a whole, my first guess would be a fan. You can still buy plaited
palm-leaf fans of this shape in import stores. 

yes, it does rather have that *shape*.

my apologies for the poor quality of the .jpgs --the quality of the
photographs in the book i took them from 

[Bellarmino Bagatti.  _Excavations in Nazareth. Vol. II: From the 12th century
until Today_. Jerusalem: Franciscan Printing Press, (2003?)]

are only marginally better, i fear.

i will try and get a better detail of just this section of the picture this
evening and post it tomorrow --though we're at the limit of the half-tone, i'm

anyway, from this detail, it is clear that the whatever-it-is is suspended
from a twisted *cord*.

and, as you say, the size is wrong.

>At the size it is, though, it looks more like a tiny pouch or pendant of some

an idea.

maybe even a good idea, who nose.

too early for a pocket watch, i suppose.

or even a "locket" ?

>I'll be interested to see what Susan Carroll-Clark can come up with.

me, too.

>> to the right of it is something else which i can't quite make out: perhaps
a thin leather(?) strap, looped in a half-hitch around the belt at the top and
ending in a series of regularly punched holes.

>>is there something suspended from it, just where the punched holes begin?

by this i meant that there is *some*thing clearly carved (although not clearly
recognizable) near the top of that thin strap on the right, just below the
cord/belt, something which juts out at a right angle from the strap, something
with a half-round "top" over a flat rectangle, the latter articulated with
what appears to be one (or perhaps two) levels of a kind of beading.

the two hanging objects are definitely *seperate* from each other, one
suspended by a twisted cord, the other by a narrow strap, which has no less
than 16 punched holes regularly extending down its length, from the place
where the horizontal object joins it to the bottom of the strip.

> The fact that the heart-shaped object doesn't show at all on the right side
of the "strap", along with the other markings on that side, 

this is a good point: the punched strap *does* terminate the "heart", part of
which we would expect to see on the other side of it, if it were just a
question of a thin strap falling over the surface of it.

>suggest to me that we might be looking at the left-hand edge of a flat
trapezoidal pouch. 

mmmmm.... neither Dr. Rhorschach nor i can quite see what you mean, here.

maybe later.

>(The shape looks rather like one of those modern four-sided metal cheese
graters, though I can't imagine why St. Peter would have such a thing.)

perhaps a reference to Peter's arrival in Italy, where such a grater would be
a necessity for the creation of a proper Mozzarella toping?

> There's a short horizontal strip near the top 

is that the horizontal element which i say has a half-round thingie above a
beaded section, to the right of the strap?

>that might be part of the pouch's opening, some vague suggestions of pattern
on the stone between the strap and the folds of the garment that might
represent the surface of the pouch (a fancy fabric perhaps?) 

you've lost me.

>and if I use my imagination, perhaps some froufy bits to the right of the
bottom end of the strap that could represent tassels or fringe.

from the photograph --marginally better than the .jpg, perhaps-- i can't tell
whether or not those are really froufy bits (some sort of fabricocentric
technical term, i assume) at the end of the strap are tassels or not.

the stone is a bit damaged there, right before the final break.
> It's a bit odd for a pouch, especially since it seems to be hanging straight
up and down while suspended only from its top left-hand corner, 

i just can't see it.

> These both look to me like additions by a later hand than the original
sculptor -- different technique and all that. Is that likely? 


i think that i can put the Kye-Boshe on that particular speculation.

the Nazareth figures generally --and this one in particular-- are remarkable
for both the boldness of their style and the homgeneity of it.

i can see *nothing* about these details which suggest that they are a later

among other things, the cord and strap are in higher relief than the smooth
surface of the fabric on which they lie (the "heart" is carved in "intaglio",
i.e., it is incised below the surface).

there is no way that the cord and strap could have been *added*, once the
smooth area had been finished.

btw, we must assume that the original Plan called for the application of
polychromy, and that all these objects would have been "picked out" in paint.

however, i don't think that there would have been any added elements which
were not indicated in the stone itself.

>If so, it might explain some of the peculiarities (including the small

we've got to assume that the scale is right --not a fan, maybe not a pouch.

fwIw, the venerable Fr. Bagatti (who, by the time he wrote this posthumously
published book, had been active in Palestinian archeology for nearly 60 years)
tentatively describes them thus (p. 104) :

"The tunic is bound at the waist with a band of curled cords like those
feminine cords, which let some pendants hang from the knot on the left side:
(pl. 43) one consists in a cord attached to a round object decorated by a
circle with points and within a type of flower. It seems like an embroidered
case. To the other cord decorated with points there is attached a sheath of a
sword, or perhaps, a pen of a scribe. In the fold to the left, close by,
appears a mark, a kind of "trikyrion", which shows how the sculptor delights
in details."

i can see the half-round object hanging from the strap as being the tip of the
handle of a little knife like one used by a scribe (rather than a pen), the
blade of which is hidden in a sheath.

i *can* see that, but i don't like it.

thanks, Chris.

could you pass this discussion on to your list, please?

i look forward to hearing from anyone there.

> BTW, this gives me an occasion to mention that DISTAFF will be holding an
open "gallery" at Kalamazoo this year...I believe they have us scheduled in
one of the larger rooms in Fetzer on the Friday evening.

look forward to it, if i can make it up there at all this May.


To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools

RSS Feeds and Sharing

Advanced Options


October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996

JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager