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PLAGIARISM  2005

PLAGIARISM 2005

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Subject:

Re: Response to Reddy

From:

George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Plagiarism <[log in to unmask]>, George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:40:28 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (262 lines)

But as we know from Oppenheim's experiment, the writers of these essays
sometimes plagiarise. 

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of sally
jones
Sent: 26 April 2005 23:27
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Response to Reddy


George

No, I did mean 'plagiarism proof'. The cheat sites guarantee the work is
original and thus if the work was plagiarised would open themselves up
to lawsuits.

Sally

&gt;From: George MacDonald Ross &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
&gt;Reply-To: Plagiarism &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;,
George MacDonald Ross &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
&gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
&gt;Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:57:28 +0100
&gt;
&gt;Sally,
&gt;
&gt;Do you mean 'detection' proof in the last sentence? If so, one of
the &gt;solutions is to viva students on their assessed work. &gt;
&gt;George. &gt; &gt;-----Original Message-----
&gt;From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
sally &gt;jones
&gt;Sent: 24 April 2005 20:45
&gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;George
&gt;
&gt;I am interested in making assessments 'cheat-proof' which would
include &gt;'plagiarism'. Hiring a cheat site makes it plagiarism proof
if the &gt;person does a good job. &gt; &gt;Sally &gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;From: George MacDonald Ross
&amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;Reply-To: Plagiarism
&amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;gt;,
&gt;George MacDonald Ross &amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;&amp;gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
&gt;&amp;gt;Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:00 +0100
&gt;&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;Sally,
&gt;&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;I think we are edging towards agreement. Exams can be
designed &gt;better &amp;gt;than they have been in the past.
Nevertheless, there are many &gt;&amp;gt;alternative ways of assessing
students which can be made more or &gt;less &amp;gt;plagiarism-proof,
and we shouldn't abandon innovative methods &gt;of &amp;gt;assessment
simply because of a panic about plagiarism. &amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;George.
&amp;gt; &amp;gt;-----Original Message-----
&gt;&amp;gt;From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of &gt;sally &amp;gt;jones
&gt;&amp;gt;Sent: 24 April 2005 16:21
&gt;&amp;gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;&amp;gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
&gt;&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;George
&gt;&amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;Exams that test problem-solving skills would test
independent &gt;thinking. &amp;gt;Where the exam is based on a case
study approach, perhaps &gt;with a &amp;gt;pre-issued case study,
students would be encouraged to &gt;develop themes. &amp;gt;
&amp;gt;They would, of course, be harder to mark than &gt;exams testing
memory &amp;gt;skills, but you certainly would not be able to &gt;pay
someone to sit the &amp;gt;exam for you - hopefully! &amp;gt;
&amp;gt;Sally &amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;From: George MacDonald Ross
&gt;&amp;amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Reply-To: Plagiarism
&gt;&amp;amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;amp;gt;,
&gt;&amp;gt;George MacDonald Ross
&amp;amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:09:49 +0100
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Sally,
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Exams aren't
plagiarism-proof, because some students have &gt;good &amp;gt;enough
&amp;amp;gt;memories to regurgitate what they have learned &gt;from
sources &amp;gt;other than &amp;amp;gt;their own thinking (including
what &gt;they have been taught &amp;gt;by their &amp;amp;gt;teachers -
and I tell my &gt;students that I am a secondary &amp;gt;source like any
&amp;amp;gt;other). &gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;Exams are a useful form
of &amp;gt;assessment where &gt;memorisation of facts is at
&amp;amp;gt;a premium, but for most &amp;gt;other &gt;purposes they fail
to reward the &amp;amp;gt;independent thinking skills &gt;&amp;gt;we are
trying to develop in our students, &amp;amp;gt;and they encourage
&gt;&amp;gt;students to regard education as nothing more than
&amp;amp;gt;cramming &gt;for &amp;gt;exams. It's crazy to undo all the
valuable work of the last &gt;&amp;amp;gt;few &amp;gt;decades in
devising more valid forms of assessment, &gt;simply because
&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;of a panic about cheating. I don't use exams &gt;at
all, and because of &amp;gt;the &amp;amp;gt;way I teach and set my
&gt;assignments, plagiarism is the least of &amp;gt;my
&amp;amp;gt;problems. My &gt;biggest problem is to wean students from
the exam &amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;mentality, &gt;and to get them to think for
themselves. &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;George. &gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;-----Original Message-----
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;From: Plagiarism
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
&gt;Behalf Of &amp;gt;sally &amp;amp;gt;jones
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Sent: 23 April 2005 19:44
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;All you have to do is
make the qualification 100% by exam. &gt;&amp;amp;gt;
&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;It's really that simple. &amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;(As I &gt;believe Herriot Watt do
&gt;&amp;gt;already) &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;From: George &amp;gt;MacDonald Ross
&gt;&amp;amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;amp;gt;Reply-To:
&gt;&amp;gt;Plagiarism
&amp;amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;amp;gt;,
&gt;&amp;gt;   George
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;MacDonald Ross
&amp;amp;lt;[log in to unmask]&amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;Subject: Response to Reddy
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:55:17
+0100 &amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;I like Mike's account of the student &gt;presentation. I
don't &amp;gt;think anyone &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;would
&gt;object to what he did, unless he &amp;gt;pretended that the
materials he &gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;used were his own. From what
&amp;gt;Mike says, he put a &gt;lot of his own &amp;amp;gt;thinking
&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;into the &gt;&amp;gt;presentation. &amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;As for Sally's &gt;idea, it is
similar to &amp;gt;one I had myself a couple of &amp;amp;gt;years
&gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;ago (even though I &amp;gt;didn't get round
to doing it at &gt;the time). This was &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;to write
a &amp;gt;short guide for &gt;students on 'How to Plagiarise
&amp;amp;gt;Successfully'. &amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;The
subtext would be that it's less trouble and far more &gt;rewarding
&amp;gt;to &amp;amp;gt;do &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;the work yourself.
&amp;amp;gt; &gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;I also agree
&amp;gt;that it's a zero sum game for &gt;teachers and students to
&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;compete &amp;gt;with each other &gt;for ever
more sophisticated methods of cheating &amp;amp;gt; &amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;amp;gt;and detection. If courses and assessments are properly
&gt;&amp;gt;designed, and &amp;amp;gt;the &amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;learning culture is &gt;right, the question &amp;gt;of
cheating should arise only &amp;amp;gt;in &gt;&amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;exceptional circumstances. &amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;George. &amp;amp;gt; &amp;amp;gt;
&amp;amp;gt;
&gt;&amp;gt;&amp;amp;gt;************************************************
************
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