Hi Burkhard
Agree with you lots. But...
We have peer review (not assessment) in our assignments and reflection on group process and they all look at each others' work. I still have about 0.4% cheat rate. Almost entirely from a student using the work of a friend in a previous cohort (change to coursework trigger each time). So although we don't concentrate on software, it is useful.
Matt
PS online means I can sip my Martini (any: time; place; where) so long as I have wireless networks!
Matt Hughes
Senior Lecturer
Faculty of Health and Social Care
University of West of England
Bristol BS16 1DD
tel: 0117 32 88585
mob: 0794 162 1966
-----Original Message-----
From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Burkard Schafer
Sent: 19 April 2005 12:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
Mhh, I might disagree with Christina just a little bit. Just like Bertrand Russell, I'm all in favour of laziness, an underrated virtue. Works for plagiarism too:
- I never saw the point giving students an essay question of which I already know the answer. This way, they do the more boring parts of my research (raising a different type of plagiarism issue, of course ;o), and as I learn a bit more every year, the questions have an inbuilt tendency to change over the years, as "research led teaching" should. This is after all one of the reasons to insist on the unity of research and teaching in HE. It also kills off Ms Hall's business model: Our students can do it if they do little else for three to six month (depending on the course)- how much would it cost to hire a graduate for the same time?
- I make my students give oral presentations about their progress on their essay topic in class - so they do the work
preparing for and teaching that session, AND they'll be found out if they don't understand what they claim to have written.
- in my experience, student solidarity is rather low, and nobody is more concerned about other students gaining an unfair advantage than them. So I often build in group work into the essay task, and they do most of the checking and monitoring of each other, including frequent meetings to discuss draft and progress - and they are free from any possible university pressure to turn a blind eye.
As for the cure: I think the concentration on plagiarism detection in the context of essay writing agencies is to some extend a red herring, see my first point above. Essay writing agencies only have a business model if the essays are so easy that one person can write lots of them in relatively short time. When I was young (snigger) and a student, I did discuss my studies and assignments with my parents (both with PhDs in the same subject) Even if they had wanted to, they could not have done my essays for me, and most certainly not in shorter time. A very cynical view would be that these agencies only level the playing field between those who can rely on parental support for free, and those who can't. BOTH types of help become irrelevant if the essays are topical, linked to the debates in class and difficult enough to make the student who has attended the course the only person who can write it in the assigned time
Burkhard
(sipping a Pina Colada while thinking about a new cunning plan to make them mark their essays too ;0))
Burkhard Schafer
School of Law
Edinburgh University
Old College
Edinburgh
EH8 9YL
[log in to unmask]
0044-(0)131-6502035 http://www.law.ed.ac.uk/staff/view.asp?ref=69
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mainka, Christina [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 18 April 2005 09:59
> Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
>
> Hello Duncan,
>
> but I am speaking for myself-I begin "In my opinion" and I
> did mean it that way.
>
> Gratefully, there are dedicated educators, as yourself, but
> it seems the system allows for too many of the colleague of
> whom you speak. In saying that I haven't yet pointed fingers
> at educators at all, but merely describe an observation. The
> root lies somewhere deeper within the UK HE system, funding
> policies and/or politics of which I understand nothing. It is
> when the dedicated educators tell me that they are being
> discouraged from failing students for plagiarising because
> heads of school are concerned about high attrition rates I am
> surprised there are still so many committed folk left.
>
> The system is self-defeating: Dedication is being
> discouraged and laziness ignored. The student in turn is only
> playing by the rules of the game, is s/he not?
>
> Christina
>
> Christina Mainka,Ph.D.
> Online Learning Adviser and JISC PDS aministrator
> Educational Development
> Napier University
> Craighouse Campus
> Edinburgh EH10 5LG
>
> T: (0131) 455 6110
> E: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf
> Of Duncan Williamson
> Sent: 18 April 2005 06:30
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
>
>
> Speaking for myself I would like to say, speak for yourself.
>
> As I type this, I am sitting next to my bookcase that
> contains my teaching notes. This year alone I have
>
> Generated
>
> 4 full lever arch files for an intermediate level accounting
> class ... so far 2 full lever arch files for an advanced
> level financial management class ... so far 2 full lever arch
> files for each of an AS and A2 Accounting class ... so far 3
> full lever arch files for two HND modules I am teaching ... so far
>
> In order to keep myself up to date I have to buy extremely
> expensive accounting and law books (eg £50 for a complete set
> of accounting standards and £95 for a summary of
> International accounting standards). I don't have the luxury
> of an HE library to go at I'm afraid.
>
> I read your message at just after 6 am and could easily have
> read it at midnight.
>
> On the other hand, I am working with a colleague who is
> teaching final level financial accounting students and he has
> never read any accounting standards in full himself: he is
> surfing the web every week looking for standards to download,
> articles that contain the magic pill ... he never finds them.
> In a sense it's lucky for him that his students are aiming at
> a public professional exam without the need for essays and
> assignments and if they fail, well, the average pass rate is
> only around 50% anyway so what could he do?
>
> If your colleagues really are saying "But I've never
> supported my students in this way face to face: why suddenly
> now?" then you are either working in the wrong way or with
> the wrong people and maybe you ought to consider employing
> someone like me!
>
> Now, give us the solution: Elizabeth Hall: a pox on all her
> houses. Yes or no? She's a symptom: how to cure the disease?
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mainka, Christina [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 17 April 2005 21:31
> Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
>
> But that really isn't the problem at all, in my opinion.
>
> The problem is decrepit Higher Education assessment and
> teaching practices. The only reason selling essays is
> profitable is because lecturers are using notes from years
> gone by, summative assessments are just too much work, essay
> writing guidelines require neither outlines nor draft
> submissions and no quality control is in place to ensure that
> last year's questions are not in this year's exam.
>
> For that very same reason, in my role as online learning
> adviser, I can't encourage decent online assessment and
> teaching practice which foresees ongoing student support,
> assessed asynchronous conferences and a variety of assessment
> methods aligned to learning objectives. There are exceptions,
> but too many lecturers have given me quizzical looks
> asking-"But I've never supported my students in this way face
> to face-why suddenly now?"
>
> We know how to teach well from the Ralph W.Tylers, the
> Vygotskys, the Laurillards, but considering the poor
> teaching going on, to quote John Biggs in his book Teaching
> for Quality Learning, "Well, they may as well have been
> tending sheep."
>
> I think we've got what we've deserved.
>
> What does everybody else think?
>
> Christina
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Plagiarism on behalf of sally jones
> Sent: Sun 4/17/2005 1:34 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
>
>
>
> You ask 'no what?'
>
> I have been moaning on here for 2 years or so about
> www.elizabethhall.com and what have people done?
>
> Nothing.
>
> You could at least write to those standing in the election
> asking them to make essay selling, illegal.
>
>
>
> >From: "Mainka, Christina" <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Plagiarism <[log in to unmask]>,
> "Mainka, Christina" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
> >Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:01:50 +0100
> >
> >Mike,
> >
> >if you mean Brains for Sale then go to
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/?focuswin and listen to
> the tape (possible for up to 7 days after show I think).
> Scary stuff-worth every minute. The question is: So now what?
> > >Christina > >________________________________
> >
> >From: Plagiarism on behalf of Mike Reddy
> >Sent: Sat 4/16/2005 2:33 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: BBC Breakfast
> >
> >
> >
> >Just managed to see about 4 minutes of the Friday BBC
> Breakfast >footage; sadly the VCR died, due to a duff
> tape. Jude Carrol was brill! >Particularly loved the
> "It doesn't wash with me. I'm busy too." line.
> >The bit I saw was at 7-45am. Was there much discussion
> before that? Did >anyone tape it? > >Mike >
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