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Subject:

Re: BBC Breakfast

From:

"Mainka, Christina" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Plagiarism <[log in to unmask]>, Mainka, Christina

Date:

Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:42:31 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (336 lines)

Duncan,
 
I agree completely. I too work for an (American) institution of HE since 1995. My work goes something like this. 
 
1. I teach.
2. I am evaluated (online or f2f) by an (unannounced) auditor
3. I am evaluated by students.
4. I am sent results of evaluation which are reported in relation to all other results for teachers in my subject area.
5. Results of 2 and 4 in particular determine whether or not I am employed again. 
 
Step 2 occurs 1-2/year whereas step 4 occurs for every course. 
 
It's as simple as that.
 
Christina

________________________________

From: Plagiarism on behalf of Duncan Williamson
Sent: Tue 4/19/2005 6:19 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast



Thanks for your reply Christina and others but don't you think that one of
the most significant reasons for the comments that you felt able to make is
one of responsibility and accountability?

Teachers are free people: when I started out as a teacher in 1980 colleagues
were proud to say that once they closed the door of their classroom, there
was no one who could say or do anything that they didn't want them to. In
other words, complete freedom.

With that freedom comes a responsibility of course and I think the heart of
part of our problem is that teachers are insufficiently held accountable. I
know there are Inspections (Pah! If you've ever been involved in these
fantasies) and I know there are all sorts of evaluations but: nothing
changes for better or worse when inspection and evaluations are not acted
on.

I do a fair amount of work now for private educational establishments and
for commercial organisations and the simple reality is this:

I work
I am evaluated
The evaluation takes one of several forms
Following the evaluation I am re employed or not

There you are: if they like what I do and the way I do it I'll be back,
otherwise it's goodbye Mr Chips!


Duncan


-----Original Message-----
From: Mainka, Christina [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 18 April 2005 09:59
Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast

Hello Duncan,

but I am speaking for myself-I begin "In my opinion" and I did mean it that
way.

Gratefully, there are dedicated educators, as yourself, but it seems the
system allows for too many of the colleague of whom you speak. In saying
that I haven't yet pointed fingers at educators at all, but merely describe
an observation.  The root lies somewhere deeper within the UK HE system,
funding policies and/or politics of which I understand nothing. It is when
the  dedicated educators tell me that they are being discouraged from
failing students for plagiarising because heads of school are concerned
about high attrition rates I am surprised there are still so many committed
folk left.

The system is self-defeating:  Dedication is being discouraged and laziness
ignored. The student in turn is only playing by the rules of the game, is
s/he not?

Christina

Christina Mainka,Ph.D.
Online Learning Adviser and JISC PDS aministrator
Educational Development
Napier University
Craighouse Campus
Edinburgh EH10 5LG

T: (0131) 455 6110
E: [log in to unmask]




-----Original Message-----
From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Duncan
Williamson
Sent: 18 April 2005 06:30
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast


Speaking for myself I would like to say, speak for yourself.

As I type this, I am sitting next to my bookcase that contains my teaching
notes. This year alone I have

Generated

4 full lever arch files for an intermediate level accounting class ... so
far
2 full lever arch files for an advanced level financial management class ...
so far
2 full lever arch files for each of an AS and A2 Accounting class ... so far
3 full lever arch files for two HND modules I am teaching ... so far

In order to keep myself up to date I have to buy extremely expensive
accounting and law books (eg 50 for a complete set of accounting standards
and 95 for a summary of International accounting standards). I don't have
the luxury of an HE library to go at I'm afraid.

I read your message at just after 6 am and could easily have read it at
midnight.

On the other hand, I am working with a colleague who is teaching final level
financial accounting students and he has never read any accounting standards
in full himself: he is surfing the web every week looking for standards to
download, articles that contain the magic pill ... he never finds them. In a
sense it's lucky for him that his students are aiming at a public
professional exam without the need for essays and assignments and if they
fail, well, the average pass rate is only around 50% anyway so what could he
do?

If your colleagues really are saying "But I've never supported my students
in this way face to face: why suddenly now?" then you are either working in
the wrong way or with the wrong people and maybe you ought to consider
employing someone like me!

Now, give us the solution: Elizabeth Hall: a pox on all her houses. Yes or
no? She's a symptom: how to cure the disease?

Duncan





-----Original Message-----
From: Mainka, Christina [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 17 April 2005 21:31
Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast

But that really isn't the problem at all, in my opinion.

The problem is decrepit Higher Education assessment and teaching practices.
The only reason selling essays is profitable is because lecturers are using
notes from years gone by, summative assessments are just too much work,
essay writing guidelines require  neither outlines nor draft submissions and
no quality control is in place to ensure that last year's questions are not
in this year's  exam.

For that very same reason, in my role as online learning adviser, I can't
encourage decent online assessment and teaching practice which foresees
ongoing student support, assessed asynchronous conferences and a variety of
assessment methods aligned to learning objectives. There are exceptions, but
too many lecturers have given me quizzical looks asking-"But I've never
supported my students in this way face to face-why suddenly now?"

We know how to teach well from the Ralph W.Tylers, the Vygotskys, the
Laurillards, but considering the poor  teaching going on, to quote  John
Biggs in his book Teaching for Quality Learning, "Well, they may as well
have been tending sheep."

I think we've got what we've  deserved.

What does everybody else think?

Christina

________________________________

From: Plagiarism on behalf of sally jones
Sent: Sun 4/17/2005 1:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast



You ask 'no what?'

I have been moaning on here for 2 years or so about www.elizabethhall.com
and what have people done?

Nothing.

You could at least write to those standing in the election asking them to
make essay selling, illegal.



&gt;From: &quot;Mainka, Christina&quot; &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
&gt;Reply-To: Plagiarism &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;,
&quot;Mainka, Christina&quot; &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
&gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;Subject: Re: BBC Breakfast
&gt;Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:01:50 +0100
&gt;
&gt;Mike,
&gt;
&gt;if you mean Brains for Sale then go to
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/?focuswin and listen to the tape
(possible for up to 7 days after show I think). Scary stuff-worth every
minute. The question is: So now what?
&gt;
&gt;Christina
&gt;
&gt;________________________________
&gt;
&gt;From: Plagiarism on behalf of Mike Reddy
&gt;Sent: Sat 4/16/2005 2:33 PM
&gt;To: [log in to unmask]
&gt;Subject: BBC Breakfast
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Just managed to see about 4 minutes of the Friday BBC Breakfast
&gt;footage; sadly the VCR died, due to a duff tape. Jude Carrol was brill!
&gt;Particularly loved the &quot;It doesn't wash with me. I'm busy
too.&quot; line.
&gt;The bit I saw was at 7-45am. Was there much discussion before that? Did
&gt;anyone tape it?
&gt;
&gt;Mike
&gt;
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It is your responsibility to ensure that this message and any attachments
are scanned for viruses or other defects. Napier University does not accept
liability for any loss
or damage which may result from this email or any attachment, or for errors
or omissions arising after it was sent. Email is not a secure medium. Email
entering the
University's system is subject to routine monitoring and filtering by the
University.

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It is your responsibility to ensure that this message and any attachments
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liability for any loss
or damage which may result from this email or any attachment, or for errors
or omissions arising after it was sent. Email is not a secure medium. Email
entering the
University's system is subject to routine monitoring and filtering by the
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This message is intended for the addressee(s) only and should not be read, copied or disclosed to anyone else outwith the University without the permission of the sender.
It is your responsibility to ensure that this message and any attachments are scanned for viruses or other defects. Napier University does not accept liability for any loss
or damage which may result from this email or any attachment, or for errors or omissions arising after it was sent. Email is not a secure medium. Email entering the 
University's system is subject to routine monitoring and filtering by the University. 

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