Hi Fishers
I agree with Tim, training would be extremely useful. I have self taught myself a bit about XML and how it works, by various means, but a structured course of a day, perhaps using MIDAS XML as an example would be very useful.
Using HBSMR means HERO's and SMRO's could export XML with out necessarily knowing how XML works, but all that means is that customer inquiries about what to do with the export are answered with an "ERrrm..."!
GML is something I only found out about yesterday via the HBSMR users group meeting where it was mentioned, so training in this would be good
In the meantime, Tim, and others, you might like to look at http://www.w3schools.com/ which has XML tutorials, amongst other things.
Another point is that I think for once, HER/SMR's are ahead of the game here, in that MIDAS XML has been set up before a great demand from HER inquirers had clamoured for it (by that I mean only a handful of people request XML exports, and none GML yet). As XML becomes more mainstream to HER users, then this is likely to change, and hopefully we can steer users to choose MIDAS XML as the way to go, but only if we all understand it.
It would be sad if this lead was lost due to a lack of training
cheers
best wishes
Nick Boldrini
Historic Environment Record Officer
Heritage Section
Countryside Service
North Yorkshire County Council
Direct Dial (01609) 532331
Conserving North Yorkshire's heritage - encouraging sustainable access
www.northyorks.gov.uk/archaeology
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>>> [log in to unmask] 23/11/2005 09:27:14 >>>
Hi
In response to the recent posts on xml and gml could I put feelers out to see if there is anyone else, like me, who clearly needs some training in both of these?
From the discussions there are obviously a number of SMR/HER officers and heritage professionals who are, with good reason, pushing for these standards to be adopted. However, unless it is just me being dense (which is entirely possible) the assumption that those of us outside of this core group fully understand XML and now GML seems dangerous - especially given the importance of the use of xml. I for one have not even been able to load the xml Listed Building data even with the help of the county's IT support.
I wonder if this is something that the ADS or even Oxford could run a course on? I don't want to be left behind on this but, at the moment, I have no access to training in it.
Thanks
Tim
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Tim Grubb - SMR Officer
> Gloucestershire County Council Archaeology Service
> Environment Dept.
> Shire Hall
> Gloucester
> GL1 2TH
>
> Tel: (01452) 425705
> Fax: (01452) 425356
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> Web: http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archaeology/
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
-----Original Message-----
From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH)
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Tyler Bell
Sent: 22 November 2005 21:27
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [FISH] Feedback on the MIDAS schema
Dear Ian et al.,
I'm glad to see an active interest in MIDAS XML and MIDAS spatial.
I'll note first that GML was considered for this purpose, but rejected,
in part because it was believed at the time to bring a burden of
overhead and complexity with it; we (the MIDAS XML group) opted for this
customised approach because it allowed us to capture the required
spatial content without becoming overly complex. Of equal importance, it
was specifically tailored to suit both the granular nature of HER
spatial data, and the the relatively basic level of XML -- and
particularly spatial XML -- acumen in HERs and their parent authorities.
To be fair, I would not go so far as to say that the approach we have
taken is, as you suggest, proprietary: there is nothing in the schema
that cannot be transformed into GML, and we also endorse the use of
OGC-supported WKT for representing geometry (largely because this format
can be understood by spatial databases without requiring
transformation); lastly, the representation itself was influenced in
part by various components of the the OGC-supported WMS protocol.
Saying that, however, I am keen to stress above all else that I am all
for improving MIDAS XML wherever possible, and especially exploring
alternatives that simultaneously capture the required data, support
extant standards, and make it easier for HERs to use. If this is what
will make the exchange of heritage information more straightforward and
less of a headache for HER officers, then it should certainly be pursued.
Regards,
Tyler
---
Dr Tyler Bell
Director
Oxford ArchDigital Ltd.
Ian Painter wrote:
> Hi Trevor,
>
> Geography Markup Language (GML) is a standard created by the Open
> Geospatial Consortium (OGC) http://www.opengeospatial.org to allow the
> exchange of geographical information between computer systems.
>
> To start at the beginning, GML is an extension of XML (eXtensible Markup
> Language). XML is a standard defined by the W3C (World Wide Web
> Consortium). XML defines some basic constructs for forming data formats
> such as the idea of a data element, basic types like strings, numbers
> and dates etc. Most importantly, XML defines a standard way of adding
> extensions to XML to make a more specific format. This mechanism for
> defining formats is called XML Schema.
>
> The OGC have used XML Schema to add some geographical concepts to XML.
> So, for example, GML defines the concept of a geographical feature,
> line, point and area geometry and so on. These extensions are specified
> in two XML Schema files, features.xsd and geometry.xsd (XML Schema files
> usually have the ".xsd" file name extension).
>
> However, these are still abstract definitions, and so GML needs to be
> extended further to express the elements relevant to a particular
> dataset. For example, whilst GML says there is such thing as a feature a
> particular format might extend this to say that there is a kind of
> feature called "Road". GML says that features can have geometry
> attributes that are lines, points or areas. The particular format might
> specify that a "Road" has a geometry attribute that is a line. A
> particular format will be specified in one or more XML Schema files
> (".xsd" files). The XML Schema that defines a particular format is known
> as the application schema. The application schema files should be
> supplied by your data provider along with GML data itself.
>
> GML is mature and stable ISO adopted standard (ISO 19136) currently in
> its 3 major iteration, you can find the full (and very detailed) spec
> along with its associated XML Schemas here:
>
> http://opengis.net/gml/
>
> The best resource is simple 6 stage online introduction here:
>
> http://gislounge.com/ucon/ucgmlintro.shtml
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of REYNOLDS, Trevor
> Sent: 22 November 2005 10:06
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [FISH] Feedback on the MIDAS schema
>
> Ian
>
> Could you give me a quick explanation of GML - I've never heard of it
> before.
>
> Trevor Reynolds
> Collections Registrar, English Heritage, Room 530, 23 Savile Row, London
> W1S 2ET, United Kingdom
> Tel: +44 (0) 20 7973 3482 Fax: +44 (0) 20 7973 3209
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: The Forum for Information Standards in Heritage (FISH)
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Painter
>>Sent: 21 November 2005 17:17
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [FISH] Feedback on the MIDAS schema
>>
>>Hi All,
>>
>>We've had a number of queries from our customers and partners
>
> regarding
>
>>our ability to support the MIDAS schema. Firstly, let me give you a
>>little background. I'm from a company called Snowflake Software and we
>
>
>>specialise in schema aware XML / GML loading and publishing tools. We
>>are a member of the Open Geospatial Consortium and play an active part
>
>
>>in helping develop and promote GML. The MIDAS schemas look great and
>
> its
>
>>great to see XML being published in the heritage field.
>>=====================
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