medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

From: Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]>

> Grivot may be an "amateur" in the strict sense of the word, but I have the
impression he is extraordinarily knowledgeable in the matter of "his" church.
However I'm not going to argue the matter.


local "_amateurs_" --historians or art historians-- are certainly sometimes
not amateurs at all --though they usually do lack the kind of comprehensive
training in both the broad corpus of primary source material and the
methodology of a particular discipline which "professionals" have as a matter
of course (which definitely does NOT mean that all "professionals" are worth
anything at all).


Chartres may be typical of the range of _amateurs_ which can be found in many
locales.

for several decades the Monument Historiques "guardien" of the cathedral was a
rather distinguised fellow, M. DuBarge, whose primary job it was, year in and
year out, Summer and Winter, to collect the money and sell the tickets to
folks wishing to climb the stairtower in the North transept and see the "high
places".

he was also the guy to see if you wanted special access to the upper parts of
the building.

on those ocassions he would accompany you to wherever you wanted to go and, if
you were lucky, pointing out obscure and interesting things along the way.

it seems that DuBarge, like any good _amateur_, had persued a hobby since,
perhaps, his earliest years on the job : he searched out and made plaster
casts of the masons' marks to be found on stones all over the cathedral.

by the time he retired (c. 1985) he had a collection of several score of them,
perhaps nearly 100.

now, i'm convinced that no one on the planet knew more about the masons' marks
to be found in Chartres cathedral than M. DuBarge.

during his last couple of winters there i frequently stood with him, warming
ourselves over the heating grate in the cathedral, chatting about this and
that.

he had some interesting ideas --like the time he noted that the heating system
had been put in around the turn of the century and ever since then it had been
putting lots of warm air into the upper reaches of the building, which caused
moisture condensation on the upper windows during the coldest weather.

wet windows plus dirty air equals dirty windows, after a few decades.

"Just a gentle washing with _eau claire_ would have an amazing effect, I am
sure," he said.

i'm of the opinion that he was right.

but i occassionally overheard him answer a tourist's question about some
aspect of the iconography, or date, or whatever, of some part of the building
and it was pretty clear that his knowledge was quite spotty and, usually,
faulty.

of course, no one can know everything about everything, and, as i said,
DuBarge was undoubtedly *the* expert on the masons' marks of Chartres
cathedral.

and, it may be that Pere Grivot is the resident expert on the gargoyles of St.
Lazare of Autun.

or not.

but i'm fairly sure that the real force behind the book which created
"Gislebertvs of Autun" was George Zarnecki, longtime professor (and later
Director) at the Courtauld Institute of Art of the University of London

http://www.courtauld.ac.uk/

>> "i know of no single church which preserves all the necessary original
elements for such an experience "
 
> Saint-Pierre de Vienne comes awfully close. Unfortunately, the reason for
its purity is the fact that it's now the Musée lapidaire and out of the
clutches of those who would tinker with its lines, etc.

yes, the disasterous impact of the modern Cult on the experience of medieval
buildings cannot be over estimated.

> As for "augury," I did not do justice to Valerie Flint. She points out that
some temples were very open, allowing augurers to observe birds, etc. from
within, while others were very closed, preventing practice of same. She
_suggests_ in a footnote that this _may_ have influenced Romanesque
architecture.


i'm all for entertaining most any notions about unusual and essoteric
practices being behind many aspects of medieval art, though this one strikes
me as a bit far-fetched.

from late antique temple "auguries" to 12th c. architectural forms is
something of a stretch, even for me.

i am, however, put in mind of the instance recorded in Guibert of Nogent's
autobiography concerning an "augury" cast using a Bible.

best from here,

christopher

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