JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for CETIS-METADATA Archives


CETIS-METADATA Archives

CETIS-METADATA Archives


CETIS-METADATA@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CETIS-METADATA Home

CETIS-METADATA Home

CETIS-METADATA  September 2004

CETIS-METADATA September 2004

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Identifiers again (a global, persistent but non-unique debate)

From:

Mike Collett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Mike Collett <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:27:01 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (122 lines)

Dear all

Here is a contribution to the identifier debate most of which I have
recently used elsewhere that may be of use in this SIG.

With regard to identifiers I think we have to differentiate between at least
3 types of persistence (and uniqueness) that can get muddled up.

1. persistence of the resource (concept, event or ephemeral thing)
2. persistence of the identifier - resource relationship (this may be many
to 1 but should never be x to many)
3. persistence of the resolvability of the identifier to something else (the
resource, metadata or related information)

1. Everyone seems happy with the idea that the resource may die long before
the identifier-resource relationship dies.

2. Everyone seems happy with the idea that it is important that the
identifier is globally unique and only ever associated with a single thing.

This can be split into the two separate bits:
  a.  namespace governance. There seem to be lots of valid candidates and
some people have their favourite pet namespace. Expressing it in URI syntax
may be helpful. Whether it is IANA registered or not may be important to
some, but if you know it is a Handle for example you have some faith that it
is unique. A possible but unlikely problem is that hdl may be used by others
in identifiers expressed as uri syntax. Between most communities, and any
that follow the UKOLN advice,  hdl will be taken as Handle. If this becomes
a real issue two possible solutions are that another IANA namespace is used
if uri is essential and that hdl gets IANA registration - which seems just a
matter of time?.

  b. governance of the relationship - this is not so easy without some kind
of authority organisation or agreement between organisations. The tendency
is that the relationship is controlled by the publisher/creator of the
identifier. The persistence of this relationship is as strong or as weak as
the creator of the ID makes it. In the UK most people would have some faith
in for example JISC, Becta, e-GU or their successors to maintain the
relative persistence of these relationships - even if the organisations
change their (domain) names or disappear as organisations. So far the use of
URLs has not been reliable as people often change the content at a given
location. By building in the domain name (such as tsoid.org.uk) into the
identifier arguably weakens the chance of persistence.

3. The persistence of the resolution is a very separate issue!
It seems that it is often mixed up with other forms of persistence. In a
similar way that people have regularly mixed up identification and location
at the implementation stage. It is also seems to be often assumed or
expected that:
    a. the resolution capability can or must be built into the (URI?)
expression of the identifier
    b. there will only be a single resolution of the identifier

I think these assumptions are both false but others may disagree??

For example a user/local system may wish to check for resolution of id xxx
via a number of preferred services e.g. in the order
http://www.local.org.uk/mydept/xxx
http://www.bath.ac.uk/xxx
http://www.ukoln.ac.uk/xxx
http:///www.tsoid.org.uk
As last resort if they all fail then if it is known (suspected) to be a
Handle for example try
http://hdl.handle.net/xxx   (if it is known to be a Handle)

The doi 10.1790/712276811646 can already be resolved via several domains
even though they all point to the same place.
It can also be very effective to effect a Google search on xxx rather than
the whole uri (try it with 10.1790/712276811646 for example).

In addition the system may be set up to check one or more digital rights
management services to see if there are any usage restrictions.
http://www.digitalrightsmanager.com/xxx

So when it is said that hdl:10.1790/712276811646 or even just
10.1790/712276811646 is not globally unique then that may be become an
issue, but if if it is known that it is Handle or some other well managed
name space it is not a problem.

But when it is said hdl:10.1790/712276811646 or even just
10.1790/712276811646 is not resolvable **on its own** I would say that is
intended and very desirable.

It is very likely that anyone who exposes the Handle id 10.1790/712276811646
will also prefix it with one or more domains that can resolve it. So the
resolution and identification may be contained in a single uri but the id
and resolution are, and can be, separated.

If the id is a for example a url are there any syntax problems with for
example trying to resolve
http://www.egu.gov.uk/http://www.tsoid.org.uk/xxx ???


Summary
The main (or even sole) purpose of a digital identifier is to maintain the
globally unique persistence of the identifier - resource relationship.

The persistence of the resolution is separate and secondary, but still
important. This resolution may be done independently by multiple communities
or organisations, possibly selected as trusted services by the user. However
the original identifier - resource relationship should preferably have some
core information associated with it that indicates the current or expired
owner of the id-resource relationship and  have an associated URL, so that
there a default resolution, this is already the case for some namespaces
including, but not only, Handle and its subsets such as DOI.

These two kinds of persistence may in practice be dealt with by the same
namespace/methodology in some communities such as JISC if it chooses, but
there are many use cases where they need to be separable.

Hope this helps. Comments on flaws in the arguments very welcome.


Cheers
Mike 7:-D
-----------
Mike Collett, Schemeta
+44 7798 728 747
------------
www.schemeta.com
email: [log in to unmask]

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
October 2022
August 2022
July 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
January 2022
November 2021
September 2021
May 2021
April 2021
February 2021
November 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
March 2020
February 2020
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
April 2019
February 2019
December 2018
November 2018
September 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager