Actually, IMHO, Martin's reply to Joseph Wisener applies largely to Richard Childs' original question about receipt via e-mail discussion lists - because the vast majority of questions on these lists are not requests for "information which is held" but rather for opinions and advice.  I don't think anyone is going to support the view that opinions are "held" by public authorities (for the purposes of the Act...)

Unfortunately, this line of argument does not address the minority of questions which are for recorded information.

Marc Fresko



> -----Original Message-----
> From: The UK Records Management mailing list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Martin Green
> Sent: 09 July 2004 12:05
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: FoI Requests for information and e-mail discussion lists
> 
> 
> Oh dear, another one of those pointless questions about FoI!
> 
> The FoI allows someone to ask for information  - that's the 
> written down
> stuff - not tacit knowledge. So the answer is NO!
> 
> Martin (a Government Official with a brain)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wisener Joseph [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 09 July 2004 11:54
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: FoI Requests for information and e-mail discussion lists
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> Try as I might I cannot resist - I feel compelled to ask a question!!
> 
> If you email me a request for information about x subject via 
> a discussion
> list and I respond - are you or anyone else able then to put 
> forward an FOI
> request to view all information held on that subject? If so, 
> who is going to
> 'mine' my head for the tacit knowledge used to provide the 
> answer to your
> original question, raised in you initial request?
> 
> Email is the written communications medium, akin to the human 
> voice when
> communicating verbally!! Should we then do a brain scan 
> (assuming we can
> find one) of all Gov Officials to whom we may address a 
> question, on the
> basis that they verbally answered our question and therefore must have
> retained the answer in their inbuilt filing cabinet (brain)?
> 
> Can I slap an FOI request on his/her forehead and go to 
> litigation due to
> lack of response?
> 
> How would I know that I have exhausted the level of their knowledge?
> 
> Can I do a lobotomy to delete all files in case of future litigation?
> 
> 'Wow' the possibilities are limitless... to infinity and beyond!!!!!
> 
> Regards
> Joseph
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> From:   Paul Dodgson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent:   09 July 2004 10:01
> To:     [log in to unmask]
> Subject:        Re: FoI Requests for information and e-mail 
> discussion lists
> 
> It's Friday!
> And of course everything the Information Commissioner says is Gospel -
> Praise be!!
> Lets look at the advice in more detail
> 
> The Question
> 
> I would like advice as to whether a request for information 
> received via an
> electronic mailing list, which is distributed to list members who are
> employed by public authorities, is to be interpreted as a request for
> information under Section 1(1) FoIA.
> 
> 
> Does is make any difference if the mailing list is open to all or just
> restricted to members who are employees of a specific sector of public
> authorities, e.g Higher and Further Education?
> 
> 
> A request for information received via an electronic mailing 
> list should
> be interpreted as a request for information under Section 1(1) of the
> Freedom of Information Act.  As long as the request is in 
> writing, states
> the name of the applicant and an address for correspondence (email
> addresses are sufficient) and describes the information requested, the
> means by which the request is received is insignificant.  
> Furthermore, it
> would not make any difference whether the mailing list is 
> open to all or
> just members who are employed in a specific sector of public 
> authorities.
> This is because everyone has an equal right of access under the Act.
> 
> 
> Some thoughts
> 
> Ok, note the lead in the discussion - a request for 
> information received.
> If we institute no-mail then the request is not received, does the ICO
> have the power to investigate whether no-mail was active - 
> unlikely.  If
> we are not members of jismail (tut tut - splitters!!)we have 
> not received
> the request.
> 
> In any case, if a requester points the request to a public 
> authority and
> the authority recevies that request so what!  We would deal with the
> request in any case, whatever the medium used to transmit, 
> after all it is
> not local government credibility being re-built through FOI 
> (although DCA
> do not agree), we readily assist wherever possible.
> 
> Hands up!  who is going to use jiscmail for formal FOI 
> enquiries, come on
> out of the forest, show yourself!
> 
> The ICO says "common sense" I think they need to use the same 
> themselves
> and consider their initial guidance carefully, a simple reference to
> legislation requires assessment, risk mangement and common sense, not
> applied by the ICO in their response - in my view.  If 
> legislation was so
> clear cut we would save a fortune on Legal Aid!
> 
> Happy Friday!
> 
> 
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