Anton
that's my stance, from front or above but not behind, Which I consider
DANGEROUS to teach, but where has it come from? The Medical director from
Tyne on Weir Fire Brigade has given this technique the thumbs up to be
taught to the FF's. So where has he got it from and why are is it being
taught?
It has now move to S Wales FS and god know who else next. Anton as
continuity of Care, would you be happy to see this being done when you
turned up at a scene of a RTA.
Yes my views don't teach it, two can mange it properly
What I set out to achieve is either reference for this technique, or
professional opinion to why it should or should not be done
many thanks
Fred
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: Airway technique??
Hi fred,
Been through the PHTLS manual in detail - the c-spine control and airway
techniques are consecutive sections in the book, but not quite
complementary - the two airway opening techniques taught are either
positioned from above the patient or in front of the patient, but not
directly behind.
PHTLS version 5 is current medical standard for CACFOA national extrication
challenge.
For interest, most modern extrication fire teams use two medics - the second
medic being used as a gofer for the two cutters, fifth person being the team
leader.
Quite academic for us, as rare for Fire to be on scene first - they usually
hand over medic-side to ourselves PDQ and use their two "medics" as second
cutting team for simultaneous cutting activity.
Cheers
Anton
In message <000901c41e5b$a7314de0$0d2c6651@hppav> fred
<[log in to unmask]> writes:
> Robbie
> few things first, I'm quite happy at my pre-hospital experience, that I
was
> not questioning for myself, Could you say that you could teach this to
> Firemen?? Remember who is recieving this training and level of expertise!
>
> Secondly- where is this taught, Head position, Head tilt -chin lift and
jaw
> thrust laying down or in front is only ever been taught on any courses
that
> I've been on and know off, Any reference for this?
>
> Thirdly, Not ban these but to stop the teaching of this from behind, could
> you stand up and account for your actions on an airway technique that is
not
> normally taught. after all, there is normally five FF's on a pump, so why
> put it on to one person to mange the airway and try his best at twisting,
> stretching trying to keep head in natural and list and observe the airway
>
> Yes we all have to make do in some extreme situations, but not the normal
> everyday work
>
> Fred
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robbie Coull
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 4:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Airway technique??
>
>
> > Ban or stop teaching jaw trust from rear using one person, but need
> > reference or professional opinion to help justify this
>
> Fred,
>
> How much pre-hospital experience and training have you had?
>
> It is perfectly possible to hold the head in neutral alignment with the
> thumb, index and middle fingers while using the ring and little fingers to
> exert jaw thrust from behind (pressing forward on the jaw below the TM
joint
> on either side).
>
> In fact, this often produces less movement of the neck than a traditional
> jaw thrust from the front (which is more common in non-trauma situations).
>
> Airway/breathing assessment is based on look, listen, feel. It is
possible
> to observe the rate of breathing, and listen for sounds of obstruction
from
> this position. With enough space (and safety helmets permitting!) it is
> also possible to place your cheek close enough to their neck to feel
> transmitted noise.
>
> Obviously, during an extrication the noise of the environment (usually
dark)
> restricts this assessment, and so sao2 and regular observation from the
> front would be nice, but it depends on the access to the patient and the
> number of people available to assist.
>
> On one occasion I have had to cradle the head of the casualty from behind
> (with the help of a head rest) whilst attempting to use a bag and mask at
> the same time. This was due to extreme access problems during one part of
> the extrication.
>
> Although it is important that responders understand the problems and
> limitations involved, I think it would be extremely unwise to attempt to
> 'ban' these techniques.
>
> --
> Robbie Coull
> email: [log in to unmask] website: http://www.coull.net
>
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