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DATA-PROTECTION  2004

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Subject:

Re: Email server rejections

From:

Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Tim Trent <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:45:42 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (251 lines)

And Mary gets the prize!  http://www.marketimprove.com/xmas is the rather
silly reward

I was wondering how long that would take!

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mary Liddell
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 1:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Email server rejections

Never mind all this -- I just want to know how you identify someone as a
"loving" individual!

Mary F. Liddell
Data Protection and Information Officer
Brunel University



-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Welton
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 1:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Email server rejections

Tim Trent on 23 December 2004 at 10:50 said:

> Since a bounce list shows (in general) people who are not there one
> can argue with legitimacy that the bounce data does not "identify a
> loving individual" and thus that you have obtained nothing.  IT does
> behove you to delete bounces (after you have become sure that they are
> genuine bounces) from your outbound lists.  Saves getting so many
> bounces in the future
>

If the list is truly a freely available one, and the bounce list indicates
some assistance with circulation, what would cause you to delete those
particular ones?

TT>Since you act as data controller of all lists you use, if the list is
under your control, the thing that will get you to weed the list is the time
it takes to send to the entire list plus the  hassle of receiving all the
individual hard bounces.  I am not interested in soft bounces at all.

> Selective Email Rejections based upon content are a different matter.
> Again a generalisation, but I think one can argue with legitimacy that
> a person behind such a rejection scheme must be there out of choice,
> and must be aware of the fact that their email address will be passed
> to the sender in order that the content may be rectified (I so HATE
> the Nanny State).  One might thus say that the obtaining of the data
> was fair, although a little random.  However you must still notify the
> individual "at the first opportunity" that you hold the data.

Where the email content does not need any rectification because it is
something normal and common like a name, why should it be rectified?

TT>I mean things like "obscenity monitors" for example.  I once had a
TT>valid
conversation with someone where I referred to "ass" (donkey).  The US
content filter that rejected it thinks that means things other than
quadrupeds ;)


Further clarification could possibly be required but to change a quite
normal proper name to something different is making a difference in the
message given.
Take the name of the centre in the link -
http://tel.directory.gov.hk/0208000067_ENG.html - for instance.  To alter
that to fit particular cultural outlooks would possibly make any snail mail
delivery impossible.

I agree about the Nanny state, its only good point is that it provides some
balance against other states of affairs.

Considering aspects of privacy in that, all that is achieved is a muddying
of the waters to the extent a true function is masked, but then from some
facets that would not matter.

Ian W

> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Trent
> Sent: 23 December 2004 10:50
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Email server rejections
>
>
> In general it depends what you do with the data you obtain.
>
> Since a bounce list shows (in general) people who are not there one
> can argue with legitimacy that the bounce data does not "identify a
> loving individual" and thus that you have obtained nothing.  IT does
> behove you to delete bounces (after you have become sure that they are
> genuine bounces) from your outbound lists.  Saves getting so many
> bounces in the future
>
> Selective Email Rejections based upon content are a different matter.
> Again a generalisation, but I think one can argue with legitimacy that
> a person behind such a rejection scheme must be there out of choice,
> and must be aware of the fact that their email address will be passed
> to the sender in order that the content may be rectified (I so HATE
> the Nanny State).  One might thus say that the obtaining of the data
> was fair, although a little random.  However you must still notify the
> individual "at the first opportunity" that you hold the data.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jethro R Binks
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 5:05 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Email server rejections
>
> On Wed, 22 Dec 2004, Ian Welton wrote:
>
> > An early Friday one.
> >
> > Do MAILER-DAEMON failed delivery messages for messages sent
> to a mail
> > list, and subsequently dispatched to a large number of addressees,
> > some of whom may be unknown to the sender, breach the fair obtaining
> > principle when they detail the non-recipients.
>
> To completely not answer your question: no mailing list should be set
> up so that bounce messages of this nature get sent back to the list.
> Any list that does that is severely broken.  I would advise not being
> on such a list!
>
> Unfortunately, they generally do have to go somewhere, and that is
> usually to the list owner, who is probably expected to do something
> about the bad addresses.  And I expect some lists send the error
> messages to the original sender, which also would be poor behaviour.
>
> Some mailing list software tries to automatically handle them in
> various ways, sometimes badly, sometimes better.
>
> > e.g. A recent email which contained what in some
> > cultural/socialogical/terratorial groups could be viewed as rude or
> > abusive and yet in others as normal names seemed to be rejected by
> > several email servers.
> >
> > Secondly, are those mail servers which reject such postings
> prejudiced
> > in any way?
> >
> > Ian W
>
>
>  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . . . .
> Jethro R Binks
> Computing Officer, IT Services
> University Of Strathclyde, Glasgow, UK
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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>
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>        All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
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>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
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>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
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Any queries about sending or receiving message please send to the list owner
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
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      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
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            All user commands can be found at : -
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Any queries about sending or receiving message please send to the list owner
              [log in to unmask]
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   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
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Any queries about sending or receiving message please send to the list owner
              [log in to unmask]
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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