Dear All,
I really promised myself I would call it a day there, but I find I can't
stop...
Many of the web developers with whom I have spoken in the past have
commented that we as clients often request that our websites should be
accessible, but that the concept itself is incredibly poorly defined.
Obviously, developers have to break these concepts down into code and
ways of structuring it. This means making practical decisions based on
unequivocal information.
Unfortunately, this information simply does not exist, for some of the
reasons which have been touched on this afternoon. You can point people
to the Government guidelines for web development teams, but that stops
short of a precise definition of accessibility. You can point people at
the W3C, but you will find recommendations and levels rather than 'x is
accessible and y is not'. Even the DDA reference is terribly unhelpful
in practical terms.
I went through a rash period of suggesting that people include
validation to W3C guidelines as a deliverable for their web projects
when using external suppliers. Perhaps this would produce a generation
of perfectly constructed XHTML-based sites with beautifully degradable
presentation, but I'd like to think that what we're really striving for
with all of this work on accessibility is wider than that, and has more
to do with fitness for purpose, being inclusive and being exciting and
engaging.
There's also a flipside to this - I have seen many developers actively
targeting us as a market on the basis of their skills in producing
'accessible' websites, which later turn out to be fairly ropey even on a
purely technical level.
When I said that no site will ever be completely accessible, I meant
that there can never be a precise definition of what the term means,
because it is relative to all sorts of other factors. Insisting on it as
some kind of realisable standard will therefore always leave us
susceptible to accusations of failing in our duty to our audiences,
which I just don't believe we do.
I'm turning off Outlook now, I promise....
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Paul Ratcliffe
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: National Gallery Launches Two New Websites
...there's no reason why a decent level of accessibility and a strong
and
immediate impact can't go hand in hand - indeed an accessible site will
reach a much broader audience and will tend to be more usable (and also
often appears higher in search engine rankings, for Google at least).
All
it takes is to a) think about accessibility from at the start of the
design
process and b) use a web designer who can actually code things properly
as
well as just making them look pretty on Internet Explorer...
On the accessible Flash front, yes it is possible, you need to use Flash
MX.
There's a good example at http://www.yourmoneybewise.org.uk/
Cheers for livening up the friday afternoon!
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Nick Poole
Sent: 21 May 2004 14:31
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: National Gallery Launches Two New Websites
Dear Marie et al,
(standard waiver applies!)
Just to respond to Samantha's message - I did not mean to imply that we
do nothing. I mean to say that we have done, and will continue to do a
great deal. The picture is nothing like as bleak as it is often painted.
We need to recognise that there are many different interests at play
around this issue. From those for whom strong and immediate impact is
the primary motivation in developing their web services to those for
whom technical accessibility and building websites is the basis of their
business model. It is important that we recognise these interests and
try to reconcile them rather than setting them up in opposition to each
other as we so often appear to do.
The issuing of fines to people who don't meet AA-standards seems
misguided at best. It is simply no way to motivate people to be excited
about their web services and strive for improvement.
And let's be quite clear. The DDA does not apply to the web
unilaterally. The guidance to part 3 of the DDA makes reference to a
web-based service in quite a specific context. I seriously believe that
this is more a matter of best practice than litigation.
Yours sincerely,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Marie Fowler
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2004 2:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: National Gallery Launches Two New Websites
re the 'Museum and the Web' conference at Leicester. I seem to remember
at
that conference that one of the speakers pointed out that you cannot
make
one website accessible to everyone, but obviously you can do something.
(again - my opinion, not my employer's)
Marie Fowler
Documentation Officer
Birmingham Museum & Art Gallery
Samantha Cichero <[log in to unmask]>@JISCMAIL.AC.UK> on 21/05/2004
13:51:54
Please respond to Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: Museums Computer Group <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: National Gallery Launches Two New Websites
>
Again as stated by others before this is just my personal opinion NOT
my employer's, so here's my two cents in:
It is a bit disappointing to read that 'there has never been, nor will
there ever be, a completely accessible website' or even worse that
there is much worse around. So, does it mean we shouldn't even try?
these sounds to me like like major excuses to actually do nothing. I
would like to think that there is many out there that are trying VERY
hard to include as many people as possible when they are designing both
content and layout of websites. I can sympatise with Peter actually and
I understand his frustration. Major museums should really lead the way
in that sense. Or are we reiterating the idea that museum access is for
a selected group of people like in the 19th century? It is 2004, it
isn't a matter of what we SHOULD do, it is a matter of what we MUST do.
The DDA applies to the web and, as I am sure everybody knows, starting
late this year applying it is not an option anymore. I was just reading
an article about how they are prepared to hand out fines to people that
have non-accessible sub AA standards websites, and not a moment to soon
I think. I honestly don't think it requires that much more effort to
keep in mind who we're are writing/designing for. Especially since
Macromedia and all major software companies have put tools out there to
make our life a lot easier when developing websites. All it takes is a
little effort and a little awareness. Certainly nothing will ever
happen if we all adopt the 'why bother?' attitude. Didn't you come to
the 'Museum and the Web' Conference this year in Leicester? It was very
interesting indeed and a lot was discussed on this topic. It was also
sponsored by this very group.
pardon the diatribe/off the soapbox
Samantha Cichero
The Multimedia Team Ltd
Kestrel 3D
9 Kittle Yards
Causewayside
Edinburgh
EH9 1PJ
Tel: + 44 (0) 131 466 8016
Fax: + 44 (0) 131 466 8018
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