---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 29 Jun 2004 to 30 Jun 2004 (#2004-22)
From: "Automatic digest processor" <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Thu, July 1, 2004 6:00 am
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There are 24 messages totalling 761 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Descriptions of rape/seduction
2. water/latrines
3. History of Victorian studies (was Victorian conduct) (2)
4. Descriptions of rape (4)
5. 19th-c. British newspapers to go online (2)
6. Richard Redgrave's "The Sempstress" - new owner?
7. Descriptions of Rape
8. medical travel kit (2)
9. Conduct literature thanks
10. Daniel and Mordecai
11. Copyright and visual images - was RE: Redgrave Semptress
12. mutual improvement/ mechanics institutions
13. My ungracious thank you
14. a photo of George Egerton (2)
15. 1890s impressions of motion pictures (in London)
16. Descriptions of rape/abduction & a publishing query
17. thanks for American businessmen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:13:16 +0100
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Descriptions of rape/seduction
Hi!
Not sure if this is what you're after, but there are accounts of rapes and
attempted rapes on Victorian trains in Adrian Gray, *Crime on the Line*
(Atlantic, Penryn, 2000). There's also a Victorian porn novel called
*Raped on the Railway*.
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis
[log in to unmask]
www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
"One can't help coming to the conclusion that politicians have a feeling
that they have a kind of divine right to tell lies" (Agatha Christie,
*Passenger to Frankfurt*)
Guantanamo Human Rights Commission - http://www.guantanamohrc.org
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:23:20 +0100
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: water/latrines
Hi!
There's a wonderful Auden poem on the delights of using the loo (I put
this delicately!) which sounds like the kind of thing you're looking for.
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis
[log in to unmask]
www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
"One can't help coming to the conclusion that politicians have a feeling
that they have a kind of divine right to tell lies" (Agatha Christie,
*Passenger to Frankfurt*)
Guantanamo Human Rights Commission - http://www.guantanamohrc.org
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:24:09 +0100
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: History of Victorian studies (was Victorian conduct)
Hi!
Michael wrote:
> I, too was puzzled at the limited response to my asking for comments
Unlike Michael and Bradley, I've always been overwhelmed by the swift,
helpful and generous responses from list contributors on a range of
subjects. I greatly appreciate the breadth of knowledge on the list, and
people's wonderful generosity in sharing the results of their research.
If I haven't said thanks enough before, I'm saying it now!
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis
[log in to unmask]
www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
"One can't help coming to the conclusion that politicians have a feeling
that they have a kind of divine right to tell lies" (Agatha Christie,
*Passenger to Frankfurt*)
Guantanamo Human Rights Commission - http://www.guantanamohrc.org
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:53:26 +0000
From: jennifer carnell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Descriptions of rape
I agree with Robin that there are more examples probably to be found in
penny bloods.
In 'The Mysteries of Old Father Thames' (1848) by Thomas Frost, a fourteen
year old girl is abducted from school by a colonel after he has seen her
walking with her friends:
' "Do not call yourself a prisoner, my pretty Lolah," said the
sexagenarian libertine. "I will take you back to the school, or anywhere
else you please, upon one condition, and that will not be very difficult
to comply with. Just one kiss, Lolah, and I will tell you what it is."
' "For shame, sir!" cried Lolah, indignantly, and blushing deeply as the
libertine colonel twined his arms about her, and repeatedly kissed her
lips and glowing cheeks.
' "Why should I be ashamed to acknowledge that I love you, beauteous
Lolah, and you to receive the adoration that is due to so much loveliness
as yours?" said Colonel Elrington, still holding in his arms the
struggling and bashful Lolah.'
(...He then offers her every luxury if she consents.)
' "Your consent will obtain for you a brilliant position in a world where
gold glosses over a thousand failings, while your rejection of my proposal
will gain you nothing; for be assured, you will not be permitted to leave
this room until I have obtained what I desire."
' "What right have you to use me in this manner?" demanded Lolah, in an
agitated voice, her indignation striving with her fear.
' "Never mind the right, my dear,' replied Colonel Elrington; "it is quite
sufficient that I have the power, and, be assured, that that will serve me
fully as well as the right."
' "Oh, pray let me go, sir!" exclaimed the affrighted Lolah, struggling
with the aged sensualist, whose licentious hand now invaded the sanctity
of her heaving bosom.
' "This is folly!" said the colonel, impatiently. "Will you be mine,
Lolah, or must I force you to compliance with my wishes?"
' "I will not submit to this infamy while I am able to resist!" exclaimed
the lovely girl, reddening with shame and indignation; but, though an old
man, Colonel Elrington was tall and muscular, and his vicious excesses had
not entirely destroyed the vigour of a frame constitutionally robust.
'The young girl's chance of effectual resistance was therefore very slight
indeed (...) Long but vainly did Lolah Hastings struggle with her
persecutor; in vain her resistance - in vain her screams, for not a sound
passed beyond the four walls of that chamber of mystery and guilt. With
her shining black hair hanging dishevelled on her shoulders, with her
clothes torn, and her face and neck suffused with burning blushes, she was
thrown upon the matted floor of that strangely-contrived apartment, and
the libertine colonel succeeded in the perpetration of his design.
'Then he rose, and quitted the room, locking the door behind him, and
leaving the victim of his licentious passion overwhelmed with shame and
grief.'
Regards
Jennifer Carnell
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger
http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:20:11 GMT
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Descriptions of rape
> In 'The Mysteries of Old Father Thames' (1848) by
Thomas Frost, a fourteen
> year old girl is abducted from school by a colonel
after he has seen her
> walking with her friends:
Reading this, I don't think anyone has yet mentioned W
T Stead's 'Maiden Tribute of Modern Babylon', 1885.
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
www.lesleyahall.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:49:57 +0100
From: Peter Mandler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 19th-c. British newspapers to go online
Patrick Leary opened this thread a few weeks ago to publicize the
announcement by the British Library that it is to digitize over a million
pages of 19th century newspapers for public access. Luke McKernan then
properly raised a caution over how far these digital resources will be
available to the general public, as this project is part of a wider
digitization programme funded by JISC (a pot of government funding meant
for higher and further education), another part of which Luke is involved
with.
I thought I ought to clear up this question - as far as it can be cleared
up! - and to let members of the VICTORIA list know how they can contribute
to the project. I am writing as a member of the project board that
oversees the project (on which I am the higher education representative);
there is also a 'user panel' which supplies further advice (what should be
digitized, how it should be presented, etc.); and there is, imminently, a
questionnaire which will allow the 'user community' (that's you) to
express its needs and wishes, too.
As Luke said in the earlier post, the project is funded by JISC
principally to provide higher and further education users with a valuable
new resource. JISC will fund the production of the digital images and
their dissemination in the first period; after a few years, the British
Library will take over responsibility for supporting dissemination. The
BL's official position on public access for these resources is as follows:
'It is the BL's intent, with JISC's support, to make the content as
widely available as possible to the public domain, subject to
ensuring all necessary licensing agreements are in place.' I am hopeful
that there will indeed be wide public access, and I will advocate this
case strongly myself on the board.
What will be digitized? This is still very much being decided. There are
technical issues that limit the field somewhat; and it is unlikely that
newspapers already commercially available in digital form (or likely to
become available, i.e. titles still in operation) will be included. The
BL wants to provide wide regional coverage, so that a fair spread of
London national, English provincial, Welsh, Scottish and Irish papers will
need to be included. There will be a special concentration on the
Chartist press.
The user community is certainly going to be consulted, and I will ensure
that VICTORIA is informed when the questionnaire (on-line, probably) is
ready.
The first title will be selected this summer and filming and digitizing
will begin soon.
How will the digital material be made available? The BL Newspaper Library
at Colindale, which is of course running the project, has been
experimenting recently with web interfaces for viewing digitized
newspapers. You can see one of these experiments (and view some digitized
Victorian newspapers) at http://www.uk.olivesoftware.com/. I think even
this small database and experimental interface give a powerful glimpse of
the exciting possibilities the larger project opens up.
Peter Mandler
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:28:55 +0100
From: Nicola Bown <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Richard Redgrave's "The Sempstress" - new owner?
Quoting Kathleen O'Neill Sims <[log in to unmask]>:
I also find it hard to distinguish between
> what is considered art history, and therefore within the public,
academic domain, and what is considered private commerce.
This is indeed a very tricky area, and one which art historians themselves
find difficult and murky. Because the discipline deals with objects
(rather than texts) which are bought and sold, it is impossible for art
history and the market to be entirely separated, and to some extent they
are symbiotic. For example, the business of authentication, provenance and
so on is an area of legitimate interest to both art historians and
dealers. Dealers and auction houses often call upon the expertise of art
historians in compiling catalogues and so on, while some dealers -- the
late Jeremy Maas in Victorian painting for instance -- become major
scholars in their field. Scholars are to some extent dependent on the good
offices of dealers and auction houses to enable them to see works in
private collections. Some dealers and auction houses, in addition, have
important business archives which are important for certain fields of
research.
Dealers and auction houses have a symbiotic relationship, because dealers
often buy at auction and then sell to individual clients with whom they
have built up a relationship over years.It's worth noting though, that the
world of the art market is a small one, and all the players will all be
known to each other. It's not at all surprising that Christopher Wood
knows Christopher Forbes, even if he didn't sell him some of the pictures
in that collection in the first place!
Essentially the name of a buyer is confidential, unless the buyer is happy
for it to be known. But dealers are often very happy to help researchers
by forwarding letters -- if you want to see a painting you write to the
owner asking to come and see it, or reproduce it, or whatever, care of the
dealer etc and they will pass it on. Then the owner can get back in touch
with you. For sale prices the best place to go to is the Art Sales Index,
which goes all the way back to the C19th. The National Art Library in
London also has a collection of sales catalogues which similarly extends
backwards. For the operation of the art market, there are numerous books.
I would recommend two which deal with the Victorian period: Diane Satchko
Macleod's Art and the Victorian Middle Classes (which deals with
collecting and patronage) and Jeremy Maas's Gambart, Prince of the
Victorian Art World, which is a biography of one of the most important
(perhaps the most important) dealer in contemporary art in the later
nineteenth century.
Hope this clarifies some of the issues.
Nicola
-----------
Nicola Bown
Birkbeck College
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:21:52 -0500
From: Ellen Moody <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Descriptions of Rape
Although the escaped convict, Aaron Trowe,
after whom Trollope named the short story in
which the incident occurs, does not proceed
to rape, the description of male violence against
a female in this story pulls no punches. It's
as graphic as you can get. My reading of
makes me feel that had the heroine not fought
him physically as relentlessly as he attacked
her, he would have raped her. I also think an
ambiguous line (so there you have the retreat)
suggests he either meant to or did slice off
her breast with the knife he wields at her.
See Trollope's "Aaron Trowe" in one of Sutherland's
two volumes in the Oxford classic paperback companion
set.
Ellen Moody
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:36:26 +0100
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: 19th-c. British newspapers to go online
A lot of local US papers, many back to the 19C, are available at modest
cost online at http://www.newspaperarchive.com
best wishes
Paul
Paul Lewis
Mobile 07836 217 311
Web www.paullewis.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:37:28 +0800
From: Angela Richardson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: medical travel kit
I've posted before on the medicine's Mariana Starke in "Travels to Europe"
advises should be packed and received a lot of helpful information. There
are just one or two things left in the list whose purpose still remain a
mystery to me. These are :
sulphuric acid and diluted vitriolic acid - might they have a cleaning
purpose? And how would you safely carry them on a coach journey?
sweet spirit of nitre
antimonial wine
supercarbonated kali
I'd be glad of any references or suggestions where I can look for their use.
Angela Richardson
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:25:49 -0400
From: Joanna Devereux <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Conduct literature thanks
Many thanks to Pat Menon, Lesley Hall, James Eli Adams, Shelley Martin, =
Peter Wood, Kathleen O'Neill Sims, Ellen Jordan, Valerie Gorman, Alison =
Booth, and Bradley Nitins for the helpful suggestions and references in =
answer to my query about conduct literature.
Jo Devereux
Department of English
University of Western Ontario
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:06:40 -0400
From: Alison Booth <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Daniel and Mordecai
See also Bonnie Zimmerman's article on all the gender ambiguities in
Daniel Deronda, esp. Dan and Mordecai, in my edited collection, Famous
Last Words (UP of Virginia, 1993).
Alison Booth
Professor, Department of English
219 Bryan Hall
University of Virginia
P.O.Box 400121
Charlottesville, VA 400121
(434) 924-7105 or -6665
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:08:38 -0300
From: Mary Rimmer <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Descriptions of rape
There's an extended seduction attempt in Anne Bronte's The Tenant of
Wildfell Hall: Walter Hargrave makes repeated attempts to take
advantage of Helen Huntingdon's deteriorating marriage. At one point this
always-coercive seduction verges on outright rape (Ch. 39), and Helen
fends him off with her palette knife, the symbol of her
artistry. The knife is also the symbol of her independence: she is using
her painting to build up a fund in preparation for leaving her alcoholic
and abusive husband. As is often the case, the supposedly subdued Anne
Bronte turns out to be quite forceful.
--
Mary Rimmer ([log in to unmask])
Dept. of English, University of New Brunswick
Fredericton, NB, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:07:24 -0500
From: Kathleen O'Neill Sims <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Copyright and visual images - was RE: Redgrave Semptress
I have no idea why my original query for help wasn't posted for 24 hours,
but I would like to thank everyone retroactively who weighed in publicly
and privately with information on Redgrave's *Sempstress* and the
Byzantine world of art collecting and dealing, as well as copyrighting.
In spite of the fact that I am currently writing a dissertation on an
artist, I am supremely ignorant regarding the contemporary acquisition and
display of art objects--not to mention their reproduction as images in
books and catalogues. What I am sure is Common Knowledge to you is News
to me.
Thank you, and for those of you in the States, have a lovely holiday
weekend in spite of the fact that there is nothing to celebrate regarding
our performance on the world's stage.
Best,
Kathleen O'Neill Sims
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:28:44 GMT
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: medical travel kit
If you have a date for this volume, contemporary
pharmacopoeias should indicate what the substances
were supposed to be good for.
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
www.lesleyahall.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 15:58:10 +0100
From: Jaap van Rijn <[log in to unmask]> Subject: mutual
improvement/ mechanics institutions
At this moment I am very busy researching debating culture of the working
classes in Britain during the 19th century. I am wondering if anyone knows
what sort of procedure was used in the debating classes of
mutual-improvement-societies and mechanics' institutions. I suppose there
were formal rules for this sort of debate, but I can't find any
descriptions of the actual debates going on in these classes. Is there
anyone who knows where to find this?
Jaap van Rijn
[log in to unmask]
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - sooooo many all-new ways to express yourself
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:54:32 -0400
From: Herbert Tucker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Descriptions of rape
>
> don't you think sensation
>poetry gives sensation fiction a run for its money?
Three cheers for Lee O'Brien, and two cents too, a propos the mention of
RB's "Confessional" -- it isn't rape, but it is rapture; and one of the
benefits of including poetry in the discussion is having the mutual
implication of the two drawn out. See the same poet's "Pictor Ignotus"
("shrinking, as from the soldiery a nun") and Caponsacchi's monologue from
The Ring and the Book (VI 937-73); or EBB's "A Musical Instrument".
>\
Herbert F. Tucker
Director of Graduate Studies
Department of English
219 Bryan Hall
University of Virginia 22904-4121
[log in to unmask]
434 / 924-6677
FAX: 434 / 924-1478
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:10:56 -0500
From: Kathleen O'Neill Sims <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: My ungracious thank you
Dear List:
I am afraid that perhaps my last posting indicated that something was
wrong with the List's management than with the poster, namely me. When I
declared that I had no clue as to why my query took 24 hours to post, I
was wondering if once again I had mucked up the e-mail process. I have
been known to post twice inadvertently; I have also sent half-composed
messages by mistake; and I, of course, have posted completely frivolous
comments. I hope haven't given offense where I intended only
self-deprecation. I was far more concerned that my belated query for help
appeared irritatingly redundant.
Best,
Kathleen O'Neill Sims
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:28:24 +0000
From: Iveta Jusova <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: a photo of George Egerton
Dear list,
I am contacting you in hopes that you might be of assistance to me in
locating the owner of a photograph of George Egerton (Mary Chavelita
Bright), which I would like to reprint in my forthcoming book.
The picture I am interested in is one of Egerton reclining in a chair,
facing the camera, taken about 1899.
It was reproduced (with no helpful caption) in A Leaf from The Yellow
Book, a collection of Egerton’s correspondence, edited by Terrence De Vere
White and published by The Richards Press in 1958. Terence de Vere White,
who I believe might have been the owner of the photograph, is deceased now
and the Richards Press, I believe, no longer exists.
I have contacted several institutions (including the Princeton Library’s
Bright Selected Papers Collection) and several fin-de-siecle scholars, but
have had no luck so far with locating the photograph.
I would be very grateful to you for any leads, suggestions, or advice you
might have concerning the photo.
Thank you very much for your time and attention to my message and I look
forward to hearing from you.
Best,
Iveta Jusova, Ph. D.
Assistant Professor of WMS and English
Director, Comparative Women's Studies in Europe
Antioch College
Yellow Springs, OH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:49:19 -0300
From: Rohan Maitzen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: a photo of George Egerton
>>I am contacting you in hopes that you might be of assistance to me in
locating the owner of a photograph of George Egerton (Mary Chavelita
Bright), which I would like to reprint in my forthcoming book. The =
picture
I am interested in is one of Egerton reclining in a chair, facing the
camera, taken about 1899.
I wonder if you mean the same photograph used in Broadview's
"Nineteenth-Century Stories by Women" (ed. Glennis Stephenson). In this
photograph, Egerton is in a chair facing the camera with her chin =
resting on
her left hand; she is wearing a striped dress (vertical stripes). The
picture credits for this say "photograph courtesy of Virago Press."
Rohan Maitzen
Associate Professor
Department of English
Dalhousie University
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:07:28 +0100
From: Luke McKernan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: 1890s impressions of motion pictures (in London)
I am currently engaged in a year-long study of London and film 1894-1914 =
at the AHRB Centre for British Film and Television Studies (Birkbeck =
College). As part of this project, I am collecting whatever eyewitness =
accounts that I can of audience experiences of motion pictures in London =
for this period.=20
I would be very interested to hear from anyone on this list who might be =
able to provide suggestions, be they literary references, diary entries, =
letters, memoirs or whatever, for the Victorian period of filmgoing. It =
is the London experience I am interested in particularly.
Luke
**********************************************************
Luke McKernan
Who's Who of Victorian Cinema
http://www.victorian-cinema.net
Charles Urban, Motion Picture Pioneer
http://website.lineone.net/~luke.mckernan/Urban.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:15:29 +0800
From: Tamara Wagner <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re:
Descriptions of rape/abduction & a publishing query
Somebody (sorry, I deleted the email too fast)
mentioned Braddon's _The black band_ as containing
rape/seduction scenes. I've recently heard that it
also includes a case of parental abduction. Is this
correct?
As a follow-up to my earlier query on parental
abduction in nineteenth-century fiction, originally
prompted by someone's email to me after he had read my
entries on Victorian custody laws on the _Victorian
Web_, I've also got a more general question. We are
now planning to co-edit a collection of parental
abduction as a narrative theme/genre. We're working on
the CFP at the moment and are already on the look out
for suitable presses. Any suggestions would be greatly
welcome. The collection aims to include fiction, film,
art, representations in the media and cut across
various time periods and genres. It should be
well-illustrated with tv stills and art works and have
an extensive bibliography as an appendix.
=====
Tamara S. Wagner
http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/staff/home/ELLTSW/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Download the latest ringtones, games, and more!
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:33:29 +0800
From: Tamara Wagner <[log in to unmask]> Subject: thanks
for American businessmen
Many thanks to everyone who suggested books containing
American business(men). If there are any more
American-born or bred businessmen (or businessmen in
America) in Victorian novels forthcoming, please email
them to me off-list.
By the way, have there been any recent articles/books
on the depiction of Americans as culturally/racially
indeterminate (and therefore threatening) in Victorian
novels? (Especially as regards a possible analogy to
the indeterminate credit economy perhaps?) Especially
many of the "American" businessmen in Trollope's
novels seem to be either Irish or Jewish. Melmotte,
for example, has alternately been interpreted as very
much American, as an indeterminate American, and on a
website I came across simply as "an Austrian Jewish
financier" (see
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/trollope.htm).
Tamara
=====
Tamara S. Wagner
http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/staff/home/ELLTSW/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Download the latest ringtones, games, and more!
http://sg.mobile.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 21:14:44 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: History of Victorian studies (was Victorian conduct)
I didn't mean at all to suggest anything was amiss with VICTORIA which is
a wonderful virtual community. I'm planning a professional memoir and I
was asking for people's comments on the relevance to their Victorianist
interests of the journals "Victorian Studies" and "Victorian Periodicals
Review" and of societies such as the Research Society for Victorian
Periodicals and the various regional organizations.
It's almost 50 years since I helped start Victorian Studies and over 35
since I sent out the first issue of the Victorian Periodicals Newsletter.
I'd like to get, particularly from older scholars, their sense of the way
in which these publications and organizations affected their work,
especially in encouraging an interdisciplinary approach.
Apologies for the repetition.
Michael Wolff
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 29 Jun 2004 to 30 Jun 2004 (#2004-22)
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