JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for DATA-PROTECTION Archives


DATA-PROTECTION Archives

DATA-PROTECTION Archives


data-protection@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

DATA-PROTECTION Home

DATA-PROTECTION Home

DATA-PROTECTION  2004

DATA-PROTECTION 2004

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Data Protection and Customer Service

From:

Tim Turner <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:50:48 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (241 lines)

By that line of thinking, has he decided that your complaint wasn't serious?


It is the individual's job to have perspective. An unwanted email is - to my
view - not serious, no matter how many people receive it. I get between five
and ten fliers through my door every week, delivered from local fast food
outlets. I find them irritating because they are a waste of paper and the
day-glo photographs of pineapple pizza are nauseating. However, I'm not
going to chase down the street after the lad who delivers them, because even
if I scare the hell out of him, it'll be another lad who delivers the next
batch. Far easier to throw the fliers away.

The IC's job is to regulate - I did notice that. But he should first be
regulating the important aspects of Data Protection - for example, the way
in which the police store intelligence, the use of data to calculate credit
scores, the issue of how we manage the transition from Education and Social
Services to whatever the Children's Bill envisages - which compete for the
same resources. If I get bothered by spam email that originates in the UK or
Europe, telling a company that I have complained or will complain to the IC
and the ASA has exactly the same effect as actually doing that, without
wasting the time of public servants who, in my opinion, have more important
things to do.


> ----------
> From:         Tim Trent[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To:     Tim Trent
> Sent:         06 July 2004 08:31
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
>
> An interesting viewpoint.  I don't agree with you over it.
>
> You see the Information Commissioner was created to regulate.  So regulate
> he must.  Being very sweet to him and lightening his workload is both
> generous and apparently practical.  And yet it falls short of encouraging
> him to regulate.  We either have laws and enforce them well or should
> repeal
> the laws.
>
> My "single" item along with your "single item" form the same source and
> other people's "single items" show the scope of problems that *are* the
> serious problems.  It is not the individual's role to judge seriousness
> but
> the regulator's.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Turner
> Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2004 8:24 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
>
> Isn't it likely that if people complain about every single email to the
> regulatory Holy Trinity, this will simply increase their backlogs? This,
> in
> turn, will lessen the likelihood that any of these organisations will be
> able to respond effectively to any complaints? This situation involves one
> email. And yet now, we have three separate organisations potentially
> creating a case, writing responses, taking time. My response in a similar
> situation (not that it happens very often) is
>
> 1. SPAM UCE arrives.
> 2. Hit delete key.
> 3. Make cup of tea.
>
> I know I'm being dismissive, but I don't think we should be paying
> organisations like the ASA and IC to deal with single email complaints.
> They'll never deal with the big issues if they get distracted by the small
> ones. Moreover, they could even use their huge complaints backlog as an
> excuse not to do anything, on the basis that they wouldn't know where to
> start. Admittedly, I've never heard anyone try this, but give them time,
> and
> sufficient complaints mountain, and it might happen.
>
> Tim Turner
>
> > ----------
> > From:         Tim Trent[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> > Reply To:     Tim Trent
> > Sent:         05 July 2004 16:17
> > To:   [log in to unmask]
> > Subject:      [data-protection] Data Protection and Customer Service
> >
> > I am not going to name the company.  After all the Chief Privacy
> > Officer is on this list.  But look at the following scenario:
> >
> > 1.      SPAM UCE arrives.  Trust me, this is to an individual
> subscriber.
> > 2.      I go to the corporate website and use the contact form to lodge
> a
> > complaint, quoting DPA 1998 and 2002/58/EC
> > 3.      Several days later I get an email acknowledgement which is not
> > wholly satisfactory, telling me to ask the Telephone Preference
> > Authority
> > (sic) for advice
> > 4.      I respond suggesting a more in depth response would be desirable
> > 5.      I decide they are asleep and lodge a complaint with the ASA, the
> > TPS
> > and the Sleeping Giant (oops I meant "TICO"!)
> > 6.      Several days pass and I get an email acknowledgement which is
> very
> > junior and does not meet my needs, nor those of the DPA nor 2002/58/EC
> > 7.      I respond and mention that I have now complained to the ASA, TPS
> > and
> > TICO
> > 8.      Several days elapse.  I get an email telling me I must "Write on
> > paper to the following address".  Apparently I must follow their
> > procedures if I am to complain to them.
> > 9.      I choose not to be fobbed off and explain my formal procedure
> for
> > complaining and tell them that they must follow *my* procedure for
> > complaints and suggest they take it seriously
> > 10.     I get an email response (eventually) reiterating the demand to
> > send
> > a written complaint
> > 11.     I resist the overwhelming urge to allow my toys to leave my
> pram,
> > am
> > exceedingly patient in my explanation again of my complaints
> > procedure.  I do make a helpful suggestion.  (Watch it!  I know you
> > lot!!)  I suggest to them that they really ought to take this
> > seriously and escalate it to someone who understands that there is an
> issue
> > 12.     A very nice lady calls me today to introduce herself and tell me
> > that she is taking this seriously and that there is a major customer
> > service education issue here which she will handle, plus getting to
> > the bottom of the problem.  She handles me well, gives me a realistic
> > expectation of a response (even if it is a call to say "no progress so
> > far") and leaves me in a pleasant mood.  I ask her if "Fred Smith" is
> > their Chief Privacy Officer.
> > She confirms that Fred is indeed the CPO.
> > 13.     I wonder to myself if Fred is about to receive a call from her.
> > Fred?  I'm sorry.  I just happen to take this very seriosuly and
> > perosnally.
> > I know you do too, but it seems that your message hasn't got to the
> > front line troops regularly and properly.  "Fred" of course may be
> > "Freda".  I really don't want to identify the corporation that way.
> >
> > The lesson here is simple.
> >
> > As CPO, "How do I get my message to the customer facing parts of my
> > organisation in such a way that they will take it seriously?"
> >
> > I may well feature this entire saga, anonymised unless the ASA etc
> > find against the corporation when it will be mega public domain stuff
> > anyway [Hmm, memo to CPOs "Want to stay off Google for the RIGHT
> > reasons?"] in one of our newsletters.  I don't copy this list on
> > those.  I find that overly commerically intrusive, but I have put an
> > RSS newsfeed on our website so people may see new stuff with ease!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Tim Trent - Consultant
> > Direct: +44(0)1344 392644 Mobile:+44(0)7710 126618
> > email: [log in to unmask]
> > <blocked::mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Marketing Improvement Limited, Abbey House, Grenville Place,
> > Bracknell, United Kingdom, RG12 1BP
> > <blocked::http://www.marketingimprovement.com/>
> > http://www.marketingimprovement.com
> >
> >
> >
> > This message is for the intended addressee's use only. It may contain
> > confidential, proprietary or legally privileged information. No
> > confidentiality or privilege is waived or lost by any
> > mis-transmission. If you receive this message in error, please
> > immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy
> > any hard copies of it and notify the sender. You must not, directly or
> > indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this
> > message if you are not the intended recipient. Any views expressed in
> > this message are those of the individual sender, except where the
> > message states otherwise and the sender is authorised to state them to
> > be the views of any such entity.
> >
> >
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >        All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
> >       available to the world wide web community at large at
> >       http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
> >       If you wish to leave this list please send the command
> >        leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
> >             All user commands can be found at : -
> >         http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
> >   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
>
>
> **********************************************************************
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by
> MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses using Sophos anti-virus
> software.
>
> www.mimesweeper.com
> www.sophos.com
> **********************************************************************
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>       available to the world wide web community at large at
>       http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>       If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>        leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>             All user commands can be found at : -
>         http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>        All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>       available to the world wide web community at large at
>       http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>       If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>        leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>             All user commands can be found at : -
>         http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>   (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager