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DATA-PROTECTION  2004

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Subject:

Re: DPA to blame agai n

From:

Antoinette Carter <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Tue, 6 Jan 2004 14:18:50 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (272 lines)

Surely, though, there is a DP moral to the story in that had everyone
concerned (shop-keeper/teacher/police et al) complied with the letter and
spirit of the DPA, there would not have been a story to relate in the press.
What has surprised me is that we have not had any contributions from members
of the policing community.  With the possible exception of Gwent Police (who
are clearly having serious problems with their e-mail systems today!!) I'd
be interested in hearing their point of view.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nwolie Ifeoma [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 January 2004 13:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] DPA to blame agai n


I've been watching this debate with interest, and I must say I have to
agree with Tim Trent on this issue.

The facts remain the same as any other witnessed crime, merely
identifying someone as the perpetrator does not absolve the police from
undertaking the necessary investigations and passing the case to the CPS
if necessary.

This procedure is carried out every day and I think trying to lay any
blame on the Data Protection Act or equating this with "lynch law"
serves no useful purpose.

(Ifeoma) Magi Nwolie
Data Protection and Confidentiality Officer
Information Governance Team

Access the Information Governance toolkit at:
http://nww.nhsia.nhs.uk/infogov/igt




-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Turner,Tim
(Corporate Resources)
Sent: 06 January 2004 13:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] DPA to blame agai n


How does anyone know that the person in the photograph is the
perpetrator? It's not necessarily a fact, it's what the victim says. He
might be lying, it might be a photograph of someone else. That's why we
have police and prosecutors, to assess the evidence and determine what
facts might be suggested by the evidence. The police have to do their
job properly, I accept that, and they sometimes don't. But give licence
to members of the public to put their own judgement in place of the
police goes closer to lynch law than you're admitting.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[SMTP:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Trent
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:35 PM
> To:   [log in to unmask]
> Subject:      Re: [data-protection] DPA to blame agai n
>
> You know, everyone is making this unduly complex and legalistic.
>
> Fact:  A crime was committed
> Fact:  The perpetrator has been identified.
>
> What seems to be happening is that a police force is blaming its
failure to
> act (I seem to recall they never even took a witness statement?) on
> legislation that is a side issue.
>
> This is not lynch law.  This is a person who has identified a
perpetrator
> and a police force with more excuses than manpower.
>
> I am reminded of a flasher in the woods in Bracknell who flashed my
wife
> rather aggressively.  She reported him to the police who never
bothered to
> come and take a statement from her.
>
> This endless navel gazing about whether it was legal for the poor
shopkeeper
> to use his records to identify the jerk in his shop is the same navel
gazing
> that allowed Political Correctness to become reality instead of a TV
Satire
> Show sketch where it originated.
>
> What should happen next is simple.  The police should accept the
material
> from the shopkeeper, make a determination about what different or
additional
> evidence they need to bring their investigation to a conclusion, and
> determine with the DPP whether to prosecute.  Rocket science this is
not.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Turner,Tim
(Corporate
> Resources)
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:24 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [data-protection] FW: [data-protection] DPA to blame agai
n
>
> I don't think anyone comes out of this well. I think the victim of the
crime
> has reacted in a way which makes investigating that crime more
difficult.
> And yet as the victim of a burglary in November which will almost
certainly
> never be solved, I think the police have acted unwisely in that they
could
> use the photographs (which represent a strong tipoff) even if they
think the
> rest of the evidence is tainted. Their own inquiries using the
pictures
> could turn up the same data without the data protection problems. A
society
> where citizens go round attempting to sort out their own justice
easily
> turns into anarchy. A society where the police don't investigate
crimes
> quickly or efficiently faces the same risk.
>
> Tim Turner
> Data and Information Security Officer
> Derbyshire County Council
> Tel: 01629 580000 ext 7373
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
> > [SMTP:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Antoinette Carter
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 1:06 PM
> > To:   [log in to unmask]
> > Subject:      Re: [data-protection] FW: [data-protection] DPA to
blame
> agai n
> >
> > I feel nothing but sympathy for the position of the police here.
Love
> > or loathe them, the Police have an extraordinarily difficult job to
> > do, and I think they need all the help and support of the community
to
> > do that job properly.  The Police quite rightly pointed out that
there>
> > was no way they can prosecute a case based on the "evidence"
collected
> > by the shop-keeper for a crime that has neither been officially
> > reported or until the evidence has been verified.  Or do we send
> > people to prison on anybody's say-so these days?  Just because the
> > victim believes he has tracked down the correct man who attacked
him,
> > doesn't mean that he actually has.  And how can the Police be
expected
> > to investigate a crime until they have a statement of facts from the
> > victim?  They can't just put that sort of evidence before the Crown
> > Prosecution Service; they need to prove their case.  These are facts
> > of life.  This is not a cheap ITV drama, this is real life; and in
> > real life, amateur sleuths actually don't know what the blazes they
> > are doing, and don't know what damage they might do to an otherwise
> > clear-cut case by interfering with the proper process of law.  Well,
> that's my rant over for the day!!  I feel much better now.....
> >
> >
>
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**********************************************************************
WARNING!!
The information in this email is confidential and may be legally
privileged.
It is intended solely for the addressee. Unauthorised access to this
email by anyone else is prohibited.
If you have received this email in error or are reading it without
authorisation, any disclosure, copying,
distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on
it, is prohibited by
Derbyshire County Council and may be unlawful.

Senders and recipients of email should be aware that under the Data
Protection act 1998 [and the
Freedom of Information Act 2000], the contents may have to be disclosed
to a request.

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