JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for DATA-PROTECTION Archives


DATA-PROTECTION Archives

DATA-PROTECTION Archives


data-protection@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

DATA-PROTECTION Home

DATA-PROTECTION Home

DATA-PROTECTION  2004

DATA-PROTECTION 2004

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Employee manual records: Interaction betwe en DPA and FOI

From:

"Gibson, Martin" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Gibson, Martin

Date:

Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:46:51 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (525 lines)

Aren't we rather getting hung up on the words rather than the spirit of
it all ?


Hmmm, that is exactly my response directed to the Law Lords to the Durant
ruling!     

Martin
Martin Gibson
Customer Relations Team/Data Protection Officer
ICT Services
Buckinghamshire County Council
01296 382907
[log in to unmask]
www.buckscc.gov.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Henderson [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 September 2004 14:17
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction betwe en DPA and FOI


Aren't we rather getting hung up on the words rather than the spirit of
it all ?

There is a general presumption of disclosure under FOI and accessibility
to your own information under DP. We can happily chose to give a person
access to any information about themselves that FOI might exempt as long
as we hold true to the DP principles.

I'm just hoping that when someone actually gets round to doing something
about the DP amendment in Scotland (hint, hint !) they word it a bit
more clearly....

Donald

-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Watson, Patrick
Sent: 09 September 2004 13:25
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Employee manual records: Interaction
betwe en DPA and FOI


Section 68 FOI extends the definition of personal data

Section 70 (1) FOI then exempts this unstructured personal data from
most of the DPA principles except for principle 4 and the subject rights
in principle 6.

It then goes on to exempt manual employment records from the remaining
principles (principle 4 and the subject rights in principle 6) -
therefore no data protection principles apply.

We cannot have access to our own employment records under DPA but does
this also mean that manual employment records don't have to accurate?

Manual employment records from Jan 2005 will be personal data but simply
not accessible.  Because they are personal data they cannot be accessed
by the data subject under FOIA because of exemption 40.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: Pounder Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 September 2004 12:40
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [data-protection] Employee manual records: Interaction
between DPA and FOI


The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be privileged.
Please refer to the notice at the foot of this e-mail before reading any
further.



Plain INGLISH as she is spooked

Employees do not get access to manual employee records about themselves
unless the records form part of a Relevant Filing System as the records
are not data

Any information which relates to a living individual held by a public
authority is personal data (but not in the context of employment)

C
-----Original Message-----
From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sally Justice
Sent: 09 September 2004 12:22
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI


As the IC states very clearly that he supports "plain english" could
someone please explain in plain english in a very succinct manner
exactly how the Acts should be interpreted as I am now completely
confused and even more so after reading the various acts on the web!

Thanks
Sally

Ian Welton wrote:

>DREW Nic on 09 September 2004 at 09:31 said:-
>
>
>
>>Section 70(1) of the FOIA amends section 33 of the DPA and basically 
>>provides an exemption to accessing Personnel files. If this wasn't in 
>>the FOIA, that Act would give public sector employees more rights of 
>>access to their personnel files than those in the private sector.
>>
>>
>
>Unless the title to the FOI s.70 - "Exemptions applicable to certain 
>manual data held by public authorities."  has no real meaning I would 
>dispute that statement.
>
>If you are correct I am thoroughly confused about the broader affects 
>of the FOI to the private sector.
>
>Ian W
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues 
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DREW Nic
>>Sent: 09 September 2004 09:31
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>Patrick
>>Section 70(1) of the FOIA amends section 33 of the DPA and basically 
>>provides an exemption to accessing Personnel files. If this wasn't in 
>>the FOIA, that Act would give public sector employees more rights of 
>>access to their personnel files than those in the private sector.
>>
>>Nic
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Watson, Patrick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 09 September 2004 08:48
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>Chris
>>You have confused me with your latest comment.  It seems to contradict

>>your newsletter unless I have misunderstood your comment below.  My 
>>understanding from your newsletter is that a former employee could not

>>access his chronologically ordered manual personnel file under DPA 
>>because it is not a
>>relevant filing system.  The same person could however access
>>this file
>>under the FOIA from Jan 2005.
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Pounder Chris [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 08 September 2004 19:50
>>To: Watson, Patrick; [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Employee manual records: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>
>>The contents of this e-mail are confidential and may be privileged. 
>>Please refer to the notice at the foot of this e-mail before reading 
>>any further.
>>
>>
>>
>>If the discussion is about employee manual records, then FOIA is 
>>irrelevant
>>
>>The Durant judgment means that employees will only gain access to 
>>manual employee records, if these records form a relevant filing 
>>system. The OIC has gone on the record that there are not many 
>>relevant filing systems
>>
>>C
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: This list is for those interested in Data Protection issues 
>>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Watson, Patrick
>>Sent: 08 September 2004 08:28
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>The point that I am trying to clarify is whether chronologically 
>>maintained manual personnel files escape disclosure under both the DPA

>>and FOIA.  When I put this to OIC I was told that chronologically 
>>ordered manual personnel files did not meet the definition of a 
>>relevant filing system and were not disclosable.  I then asked whether

>>a data subject could access this same personnel file under FOIA and 
>>was told no as it contained personal data. The OIC cannot have it both

>>ways.
>>
>>There is no doubt that manual personnel files are crammed full of 
>>personal data and this makes the Durant decision illogical.  Personnel

>>files probably hold more personal data than any other file in the 
>>organisation and current and former staff will find bizarre that they 
>>cannot get any form of access to it under DPA or FOIA.  Have we got a 
>>situation that excludes this employment area from any effective 
>>scrutiny by data subjects.
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: DREW Nic [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 07 September 2004 15:32
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [data-protection] Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>
>>FOIA introduces a new category of data (category e ) into the DPA, but

>>only for public authorities. This category will widen access to 
>>personal data,that Durant might have prevented, but has an exemption 
>>for access to personnel data. See sections 68 and 69 of the FOIA.
>>
>>Nic
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Watson, Patrick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 07 September 2004 10:56
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Interaction between DPA and FOI
>>
>>        Can colleagues help me to clarify some issues relating to the 
>>interaction between data protection and FOI.  Many manual files 
>>including personnel files do not meet the Court of Appeal (Durant) 
>>definition of a relevant filing system and are therefore not 
>>disclosable under the subject access provisions of the DPA.  If a file

>>is not considered to be personal data then what access is there to 
>>this file by the data subject through FOI?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Patrick
>>
>>Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM
>>
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>>      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>>            All user commands can be found at : -
>>        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>>  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) 
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>>      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>>            All user commands can be found at : -
>>        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>>  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) 
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM
>>
>>Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM
>>
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>>      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>>            All user commands can be found at : -
>>        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>>  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) 
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>______________________________________________________________
>>__________
>>____________________________
>>This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet using 
>>MessageLabs SkyScan services. For more information visit: 
>>www.star.net.uk. 
>>______________________________________________________________
>>__________
>>______________________________
>>
>>
>>We are delighted to announce that Masons has been shortlisted for 
>>recognition in this year's LOTIES Awards (Legal Office Technology 
>>Innovation Awards).The annual awards are organised by In Brief 
>>Magazine. We would be grateful if you would take five minutes to vote 
>>for us!
>>
>>Voting closes on 22nd October. Please visit 
>>www.masons.com/php/page.php?page_id=eloties4400 for further details
>>
>>
>>If you have received this e-mail in error, do not use the contents of 
>>the e-mail or disclose it to any other person. Please notify us by 
>>reply, or telephone our London office on +44 (0) 20 7490 4000, and 
>>then delete the
>>e-mail. We believe, but do not warrant, that this e-mail and its
>>attachments
>>are virus-free, but you should check. Masons may monitor
>>traffic data of
>>both business and personal e-mails. By replying to this e-mail, you
>>consent
>>to Masons' monitoring the content of any e-mails you send to
>>or receive
>>from
>>Masons. Masons is not liable for any opinions expressed by the sender
>>where
>>this is a non-business e-mail.
>>
>>Masons is an international law firm with offices in London, Bristol, 
>>Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Manchester, Brussels, Hong Kong and 
>>Shanghai. Further information about the firm and a list of partners 
>>are available for
>>inspection at 30 Aylesbury Street, London EC1R 0ER or from
>>our web site
>>at
>>www.masons.com. Each of our offices is regulated by the relevant local
>>law
>>society.
>>
>>This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet using 
>>MessageLabs SkyScan services. For more information visit: 
>>www.star.net.uk. 
>>______________________________________________________________
>>__________
>>____
>>_____________
>>
>>Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM
>>
>>Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM
>>
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>>      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>>            All user commands can be found at : -
>>        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>>  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) 
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>>      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>>            All user commands can be found at : -
>>        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>>  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) 
>>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>
>>
>
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
>      available to the world wide web community at large at
>      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
>      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
>       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
>            All user commands can be found at : -
>        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
>  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please) 
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>!DSPAM:41403a23161562063827681!
>
>
>


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

________________________________________________________________________
____________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet using
MessageLabs SkyScan services. For more information visit:
www.star.net.uk.
________________________________________________________________________
______________________________


We are delighted to announce that Masons has been shortlisted for
recognition in this year's LOTIES Awards (Legal Office Technology
Innovation Awards).The annual awards are organised by In Brief Magazine.
We would be grateful if you would take five minutes to vote for us!

Voting closes on 22nd October. Please visit
www.masons.com/php/page.php?page_id=eloties4400 for further details


If you have received this e-mail in error, do not use the contents of
the e-mail or disclose it to any other person. Please notify us by
reply, or telephone our London office on +44 (0) 20 7490 4000, and then
delete the e-mail. We believe, but do not warrant, that this e-mail and
its attachments are virus-free, but you should check. Masons may monitor
traffic data of both business and personal e-mails. By replying to this
e-mail, you consent to Masons' monitoring the content of any e-mails you
send to or receive from Masons. Masons is not liable for any opinions
expressed by the sender where this is a non-business e-mail.

Masons is an international law firm with offices in London, Bristol,
Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Manchester, Brussels, Hong Kong and Shanghai.
Further information about the firm and a list of partners are available
for inspection at 30 Aylesbury Street, London EC1R 0ER or from our web
site at www.masons.com. Each of our offices is regulated by the relevant
local law society.

This e-mail has been scanned for all viruses by Star Internet using
MessageLabs SkyScan services. For more information visit:
www.star.net.uk.
________________________________________________________________________
____
_____________

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM

Email has been scanned by www.emf-systems.com for viruses and SPAM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The information in this email is confidential and is meant solely for
the intended recipients. The information contained in this email may
not be the views of Perth & Kinross Council. It is possible for email
to be falsified and the sender cannot be held responsible for the
integrity of the information contained in it.
If you have received this email in error, any disclosure, copying, or
distribution of the information contained in it is strictly prohibited.
If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender
immediately and delete this email.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Visit our Web Site : http://www.buckscc.gov.uk
**** Buckinghamshire County Council E-mail Disclaimer ********
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended
recipient, the use of the information by disclosure, copying
or distribution is prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have
received this email in error please notify the system manager
at [log in to unmask] 
This footnote also confirms that this email message has been
swept for content and for the presence of computer viruses. 
**** End of Disclaimer ***************************************

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
       All archives of messages are stored permanently and are
      available to the world wide web community at large at
      http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/data-protection.html
      If you wish to leave this list please send the command
       leave data-protection to [log in to unmask]
            All user commands can be found at : -
        http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/help/commandref.htm
  (all commands go to [log in to unmask] not the list please)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager