Hi Rebecca

I'm not exactly innocent on the issue of performance poetry myself, I do a lot of readings in public, and am quite good at them. The
latest was just last night, at this open mic thing we have here. There were a few things I noticed of relevance: one, the most
inaccurate reading I gave, full of slips and errors, also got the biggest hand of the night, because I waved the latest copy of
Fulcrum in which the poem was in, beforehand, so my presumption is that the response wasn't to the poem but to some kind of
perception that it had 'status'. Two, and I notice this all the time, that in performance what matters is the banter, the jokes, the
intro, the links, I'm not too bad at that kind of stuff but also feel like I'm doing a stand-up comic act. Three, I notice that,
with myself, and with others, that very little of the actual poetry is taken in at these gigs, what comes across more is the
presence of the reader, not what is read, there was a very good example last night, this lass, who was a very likeable person, sang
and read her poems brilliantly, the audience loved it, but in sober fact the poems were mediocre, but she knew how to put them
across. Gigs are fun, I enjoy them, but one mustn't confuse them with the real thing, as it were.

All the Best

Dave


David Bircumshaw

Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
& Painting Without Numbers

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Seiferle" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:40 AM
Subject: Re: Coherent traditions (was Re: Performance Poetry)


>David Bircumshaw wrote:
> >poetry as a performance art is most widespread inside our heads, such
>repute that poetry does have in our society mainly stems from what is read,
>public recitals do not exist in the way they did in the
>>past,

I don't know, David, for the past five years I've been involved in this judging of
webslam poetry by high school students, followed by a poetryjam of high school
students from across the state of New Mexico where their work is performed,
workshops are presented, etc, and it doesn't seem to me that performance art is
'most widespread inside our heads," It's very much out there, in public, among
others, and that's not to say there aren't disadvantages. For instance I remember
one high school student who wrote a brilliant evocative piece during our
workshop but who felt when she presented it in public that she had to sex it up,
with the various cliches of language and being, a much less subtle and rich work
than it had been  in the public but more limited public of the workshop.
Performance poetry is a very real, very public, other experience, and for all I
have sometimes wondered about it, I don't think it really exists 'only in one's
head' . Doesn't it actually exist, I would think so, in cris's work, in Geraldine's, in
reference to any number of people on this list? And 'repute' is another issue,
since it is true that critical 'repute' usually attaches to what is read on the page,
though given the state of criticism, I'm not sure how much weight that carries.
And what 'public recitals' existed in the past? Tennyson reading to 100 people
of a particular class and literary standing? I don't know, even Homer was singing
to a few at a particular banquet; when was this golden age of public recital? no
more existent than the present, I think, but then it's late here and at the end of
the long day,

All the best,

Rebecca

Rebecca Seiferle
www.thedrunkenboat.com
>---- Original message ----
>>Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:45:53 -0000
>>From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Subject: Re: Coherent traditions (was Re: Performance Poetry)
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>Cris wrote:
>>
>>>common ground between them remains
>>
>>-   an exploration of the performances of poetry both on and off the
>>page  -  often between them or occasions of the one becoming the othe
>>
>>-   an exploration of the book and 'bookness'
>>
>>-   a proclivity for interdisciplinarity of reference and influence
>>
>>-   a tendency towards collaborative practice
>>
>>-   the uses and abuses of lo-tec in many aspects of the performances
>>of poetry<
>>
>>sorry, cris, but this reads to me like pure 'management-speak'. An
exploration
>of the book? Like opening one, do you mean? The
>>history of the book in Western culture is fairly easy to trace, it derives from
>assemblages of the Bible, later than the
>>establishment of the canon, that first appear I think about the eighth century
(
>I haven't the reference works to hand). Earlier
>>'Bibles', even after the canon was decided, were circulated as separate bits.
>BUT in classical culture the notion of the LIBER
>>existed, there's kind of up and down rhythm to these things, Catullus
survived
>in one mediaeval copy of Catullus His Booke, as it
>>were. Books are very nice and you can take them to bed and they don't get
>headaches but they take up a lot of space. Problem. Hence
>>LIBRARIES. Public, common spaces. 'Bookness', well that can mean anything:
>the nature of the binding, the typefaces, the quiring
>>etc? If you are thinking about the evils of Books as sacred points well even
>though I get what you mean I know all too well how the
>>abandonment of The Book in workplaces has lead to disenfranchisement and
>erosion of workers' rights.
>>
>>>-   a proclivity for interdisciplinarity of reference and influence<
>>
>>Sorry, cris, that is so fudgespeak it could have been written by a personnel
>officer. Do you mean listening to music, noises on the
>>street, the argument upstairs, looking at pictures, the washing-up from
>yesterday, the bus you just missed, and being influenced by
>>what you read when you were five, that argument last night, alongside that
>other night the stars came out in Turkey, as things to
>>which one should 'proclive'? Well, don't we all do that anyhow?
>>
>>Like, naturally?
>>
>>
>>>-   a tendency towards collaborative practice<
>>
>>I like tendencies towards collaborative practices too but unfortunately Vicky's
>got a headache.
>>
>>
>>>-   the uses and abuses of lo-tec in many aspects of the performances
>>of poetry<
>>
>>
>>By 'lo-tec' do you mean, erm, someone reading something?
>>
>>
>>I am ribbing you, to an extent, but if comes down to it, poetry as a
>performance art is most widespread inside our heads, such
>>repute that poetry does have in our society mainly stems from what is read,
>public recitals do not exist in the way they did in the
>>past, plus of course the enormous cultural fact of the Shakespeare plays,
>poetry does still get into common parlance, Larkin's 'They
>>fuck you up, your mom and dad' has entered into common speech. It's ok to
>emphasise the joys of the performance but really its that
>>still, small voice is what matters. I've never been to a reading of Celan's
poetry,
>for example, and can't imagine I'd even want to,
>>but I adore the poems.
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>David Bircumshaw
>>
>>Spectare's Web, A Chide's Alphabet
>>& Painting Without Numbers
>>
>>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "cris cheek" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 3:03 AM
>>Subject: Re: Coherent traditions (was Re: Performance Poetry)
>>
>>
>>Hiya, tuppence into this pot.
>>
>>Which Avant-Garde's produced really coherent bodies of work? The
>>Italian Futurists? the Russian Futurists perhaps? The Surrealists? The
>>Lettristes or Ultra-Lettristes? The Objectivists? The Language Poets?
>>I'd say not so or at least one would be struggling to say that
>>Mayakovsky and Kruchenykh and Khlebnikov produced a coherent body of
>>work or Oppen and Zukofsky and Bunting and Niedecker and Reznikoff or
>>Berstein, Watten Hejinian, Andrews, Perelman, Silliman, Benson,
>>Harryman . . . Yes, there are often some partially identifiable common
>>grounds but there is a web of practices weaving this way and that way
>>through over under and round about those common grounds surely?
>>
>>One grouping which *might be worth playing into is the so-called London
>>lot of the 1970s-1990s who were in and out of each others pockets and
>>readings and publishing houses throughout a significant portion of that
>>time. Yes I know it continues but that's where there was a meeting
>>ground between: Brian Catling, Allen Fisher, Bob Cobbing, Pierre Joris,
>>Maggie O'Sullivan, Robert Hampson, Carlyle Reedy, Ken Edwards, Robert
>>Sheppard, Virginia Firnberg, Patricia Farrell, Gilbert Adair, Lawrence
>>Upton, Iain Sinclair, Paige Mitchell, Aaron Williamson, Tertia
>>Longmire, Hazel Smith, Caroline Bergvall, Ulli Freer, Bill Griffiths,
>>Eric Mottram, Redell Olsen, PC Fencott, Adrian Clarke . . .
>>
>>common ground between them remains
>>
>>-   an exploration of the performances of poetry both on and off the
>>page  -  often between them or occasions of the one becoming the othe
>>
>>-   an exploration of the book and 'bookness'
>>
>>-   a proclivity for interdisciplinarity of reference and influence
>>
>>-   a tendency towards collaborative practice
>>
>>-   the uses and abuses of lo-tec in many aspects of the performances
>>of poetry
>>
>>That meshwork still looks pretty oppositional and forward-moving to me?
>>I reckon they'd probably all blanche at being considered as 'London
>>Poets' let alone an 'avant-garde' but
>>
>>love and love
>>cris