medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Did not the word "martyr" originally mean "witness"? Is there perhaps any literature
on martyrs, along the lines of them witnessing Christ with their own blood?
Cheers,
Jim Bugslag
On 10 Dec 2003 at 10:17, F. Thomas Luongo wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Thanks, John. Simone Martini's St. Dominic "writing" with a lilly is
> indeed one of the images I had in mind. Indeed, Joanna Cannon made this
> observation in 1982 in an article on Simone Martini and the Dominicans,
> though did not say more than that Dominic looks like he is writing. What I
> would like to know is whether there is any development of this idea in
> medieval religious literature.
>
> By the way, one small mistake in your description of the images you very
> helpfully supplied--but a mistake that illustrates the point. In the Pisa
> altarpiece that you identify as showing Dominic and Catherine of Siena,
> that would be Dominic and Catherine of Alexandria. And I think what they
> are holding are martyrs' palms, not quills. But as you have demonstrated,
> they do look like quills!
>
> For an image of several saints, in which some are holding quills and some
> palms or lilies, all in the same manner, see for instance Beato Angelico's
> Annalena Altarpiece:
>
> http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/html/a/angelico/altar/index.html
>
> There are several other examples of Angelico altarpieces that would also
> make this point, but I couldn't find links to them quickly.
>
> By the way, it has occurred to me that this might be a particular feature
> of Dominican art.
>
> Tom
>
> At 12:13 AM 12/10/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> >With respect, Erik, I think Tom is onto something. Your group of children
> >might very well exhibit different ways of holding a lily or a palm frond,
> >just as different ways of holding these are illustrated here:
> >
> >http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/arth/Images/ARTH_214images/van_eyck/ghent/annunciation_angel.jpg
> >detail:
> >http://www.feedback.nildram.co.uk/richardebbs/essays/images/annuncvaneyck.jpg
> >
> >and here:
> >http://www.op-stjoseph.org/nuns/olgrace/images/Dom-lily.jpg
> >(St. Dominic, whom we'll see again)
> >
> >and here:
> >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/o/oost/elder/f_martyr.jpg
> >Not medieval, but note that she's not gripping the frond in a way that
> >would allow her to write were the frond a quill. For that you really need
> >the thumb and two other fingers pressing on the implement.
> >
> >So even this frequently seen manner of holding a lily (thumb and only one
> >other finger doing the holding) doesn't suggest writing:
> >http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sta05001.jpg
> >
> >On the other hand, note how Dominic and Catherine of Siena are holding
> >quills here:
> >http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/art/s/simone/4altars/3pisa/3pisa.jpg
> >or how Dominic is doing that here with his lily that is also a quill:
> >http://www.magdalene.org/withsaints/martini2.jpg
> >
> >And Catherine of Siena is shown here holding her lily with fingers in the
> >right position to write were the object a quill:
> >http://www.prosanctitate.org/images/m_scaterin.jpg
> >
> >When the fingers are in that position, it is reasonable to think of a
> >quill, even if the object depicted is instead a palm frond or a lily. How
> >often that occurs I couldn't say; it may be significant that in this case
> >there are also depictions of the saint in question holding a quill (see above).
> >
> >Best,
> >John Dillon
> >
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