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ACAD-AE-MED  October 2003

ACAD-AE-MED October 2003

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Subject:

Re: relatives, resus and consent

From:

Doc Holiday <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Accident and Emergency Academic List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:27:02 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (62 lines)

>Why are children clearly different? We are all so happy for mothers and
fathers of babies to be there but what about mothers or fathers of adults or
children of adults? Why do we make the distinction?? Is there some loving
bond that is extinguished or diminished "Kevin the teenager" style on
reaching adulthood?

--> Not the children that are different, but their presentation often does
make things "simpler" as compared to an adult's:
1. Their judgement can generally be overtaken by yours with a parent's
consent as to "what's good for them and thus they cannot refuse" - i.e. no
legal complaint could come to haunt you later on if the child says he/she
did NOT consent to a witness, because you'll say you judged any such refusal
to be against best interest and had parent's agreement for them to be
present and supporting your approval of this...
2. Anecdotal, but true - children far more frequently have only 1 or
sometimes 2 "potential observers" while adults more often have more. My main
issue with untrained observers is THEIR safety and the need to control the
situation.
3. Paediatric resus (IN MY EXPERIENCE) will more likely bring around MORE
staff and thus we're more likely to have someone to control/support the
observers who is TRAINED and HAPPY to do this.

This would be my main issue, and I'm sure you'll agree that we MUST have a
trained member of staff to keep an eye and escort. Often, such a person is
hard to spare from the department.

There are issues of safety, e.g. when defibrillating. Also, on the subject,
what will you do next time the relative collapses in the resus cubicle in
emotional or vasovagal distress? I HAVE had a fainter to resuscitate (and
the suture face of) in parallel with an original resus. She apparently
fainted on having it explained to her that an intraosseous was about to be
placed in her son's Tibia and having just witnessed a tension pneumo being
released. She saw the intraosseous needle held up and she hit the floor.
Unfortunately, she also smacked her head on the wheels of an IV stand. I was
dealing with another case next door and had to stop and rush over to help,
because there was no-one to spare from her son's resus and the (senior)
nurse escorting her was unable to lift her and move her etc. alone.

Ended up with a nasal fracture (operated on 2 days later), a vertical
laceration from nose to hairline, and neck pain for months (perhaps
augmented by the fact that she had a lawsuit against the hospital by
then)...

I'm also aware that, as much as it's politically correct to want people to
be able to witness these resuscitations, SOME (mainly junior docs) team
members become far less effective under these circumstances. Even the ones
who strongly claim to be progressively in favour of the practice...

There will have to be very strong and well-thought-out policies in place
with legal input on consent from patients and liability towards relatives as
well as allocated staff and resources, etc. BEFORE I go along with this new
fashion.

BTW, I am 100% in favour of it working out and being possible IF the above
can be sorted, mainly, selfishly, because I would like to be present if I
were the relative! But I do not wish to let this bias interrupt my
reasoning...

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