Larry
When have you become my father ?
I don't know what your problem is mate, but please stop being so childish
and allow other to form their own opinions, in which may differ from your
own.
This is what I call a free democratic process.
I don't want to get into a personal war with you Larry, what is your game.
Enough said and let's agree to disagree. I don't want to play this childish
game. I have not got personal against you and I don't understand your need
to want to bully me.
I agree with Mark, that this forum is not the appropriate place to slag each
other off and throw personal insults at each other.
Regards
Colin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Arnold" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism (NOT)
> Thank you for this insightful post if I had read that a little erlier I
> wouldn't have sent the rather rude one about Colin, I think I'll just stop
> reading his emails as they drive me to exasperation.
>
> The fact is I don't have a lot of tolerance for people who support and
quote
> reserch produced by the eliminate autism brigade. I am not against genetic
> reserch merely aginst that motivated by desire to produce "perfect"
> children.
>
> I am also bothered by the one track approach that tries to say that one
> particular factor causes all autism regardless, and insists that all that
> need be done to eliminate autism is attend to factor x y z or whatever. I
> also tend to get annoyed by people who lay the blame for every misfortune
> that ever comes there way on autism or whatever else as we live in a
complex
> society and people behave in varios ways, and although we are sometimes
hard
> to get along with and misunderstood, there is also such a thing as
> deliberate provocation, and sometimes one finds oneself in situation s
where
> one needs to acknowledge one has overreacted even if there was
provocation.
> Sometimes one needs to be less forceful than ones opponent and win an
> argument by stealth not brute force.
>
> I think that is why Colin is always finding himself in these situations
> where he seems to want to ivoke the wrath of the Unitited Nations because
he
> was ejected from a meeting.
>
> I have been ejected from meetings and lernt through the process, when is
the
> right time to go, when to make a protest and withdraw, or when to try and
> suppress ones indignation in order to stay long enough and here things.
>
> I think Colin you need to take advice from seasoned campaigners and
analyse
> situations a bit more before you go over the top.
>
> Larry
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mitzi Waltz
> > Sent: 23 July 2003 09:49
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism (NOT)
> >
> >
> > Hi there:
> > I'm not Larry, but I am an "autism researcher" of
> > sorts. Laurence hits the nail on the head in the post
> > below: if you take all the evidence as a whole, a few
> > things about autistic spectrum disorders become very
> > clear:
> > 1. There are currently many different conditions
> > grouped together under the umbrella of ASDs. One
> > specialist I interviewed a couple of years ago
> > compared the current situation vis a vis autism to
> > where epilepsy was at the beginning of his career 40
> > years ago: at that time a few varients of epilepsy
> > had been identified, but the "treatments" were one
> > size fits all and not very effective for most. Forty
> > years on, more variants have been teased out, and
> > treatment is better targeted. We are nowhere near
> > that with autism. Which, incidentally, means that
> > pretty much all treatment studies are fatally flawed.
> > 2. The genetic research has identified many genes
> > that are associated with autism. What it hasn't done
> > (other than a couple of very small and rather
> > overlooked studies) is look at what exactly those
> > genes do. Genes code for proteins, which inturn do
> > something in the body. Some of the genes associated
> > with autism are involved with the immune system. One
> > of them (the RELN mutation) is involved with heavy
> > metal metabolism and movement disorders. Other than
> > Fragile X Syndrome, Rett Syndrome, Angelman Syndrome,
> > and Prader-Willi Syndrome--four "genetic disorders"
> > that inclde autistic characteristics--there is no
> > suggestion that any combination of genes necessarily
> > causes autism. Even with those 4 the picture is not
> > black and white: have this gene, have autistic
> > symptoms. It looks much more like a variety of
> > different combinations create more or less
> > susceptibility to more or less severe autistic
> > symptoms. At least some of these genetic differences
> > are present in about 1 in every 100 people, with a
> > higher prevalance of several genetic differences in
> > males. Anytime a genetic difference is that common,
> > one has to assume it brings some benefits as well as
> > detriments, and this appears to be the case with many
> > of the genetic differences associated with autism so
> > far.
> > 3. Which brings us to environmental factors.
> > Infectious links are actually quite well documented.
> > My own research goes back to the Victorian era,
> > before the condition was named and defined, when such
> > symptoms were occasionaly seen and documented after
> > infectious illness. One of the earliest biomed
> > studies identified a rise in autism following the
> > last major measles and mumps epidemics in the the US
> > (early '60s.) Paul Shattock's data (and that of
> > others) includes several pre-vaccination cases of
> > children who developed autistic symptoms following
> > infection with natural measles. Autistic symptoms
> > following infectious encephalopathies are known,
> > documented, and have been financially compensated for
> > in several countries. Vaccinations--the previous info
> > indicates that there's plausible reason to believe
> > they could be a factor, perhaps due to one or more
> > genetic differences. Add a mercury-based preservative
> > and a possible genetic difference that prevents the
> > body from excreting the mercury properly, and you add
> > another danger sign. Other possible environmental
> > factors include organophosphate pesticides. There may
> > be quite a few things that people with certain
> > genetic inheritances react to differently. To give an
> > example, not every woman who took thalidomide during
> > pregnancy gave birth to a child with the
> > characteristic birth defects associated with that
> > drug. And of those infants who *were* affected by
> > thalidomide exposure, only some had autistic symptoms
> > in addition to physical differences (some of you
> > might not know that thalidomide exposure is one of
> > the other known causes of autism--more studies from
> > the early '60s.)
> > Basicaly, Brent Taylor doesn't want to know, and
> > neither do some of the other researchers. I could say
> > a few things I've heard about Taylor's reasons, but
> > perhaps they are best left unsaid...
> > What I found most interesting about Taylor's latest
> > study is that he no longer seems to be disputing that
> > the number of cases has risen dramatically, only the
> > reasons for the rise (i.e., better diagnosis or
> > different etiology).
> > In my opinion, more biomedical research is needed,
> > but it needs to be dramatically different research.
> > The current genetic studies seem to be targeted at
> > coming up with a prenatal test for autism--so we can
> > "eliminate" these "defectives" a la Down Syndrome. I
> > find that reprehensible. What we need to do is find
> > out what these genes actually do, and see what the
> > environmental triggers are that make them do things
> > that may be detrimental to the well-being of people
> > who inherit them. We also need to do studies that
> > investigate real people on the autistic spectrum. So
> > far, Taylor and almost all other biomed researchers
> > are looking at numbers, not individuals. For a
> > variety of reasons, including the crucial one I noted
> > in point 1 above, this approach is not likely to do
> > anything other than provide dubious evidence for
> > political point-making.
> >
> > PS to Laurence: you might want to check out the work
> > of the late Dr. Reed Warren, and the current work of
> > V.J. Singh re: multifactorial etiology. I can give
> > you exact refs if needed.
> >
> > -- Mitzi Waltz
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Laurence Bathurst <[log in to unmask]>
> > Date: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 1:19 am
> > Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism....
> > What's the future now?
> >
> > > Hello Larry
> > >
> > > In relation to your claim of knowledge of the heriditary nature of
> > > Autismwhich I am not disputing, do you know if there has been any
> > > evidence of
> > > genetic markers? Also, are there any thoughts on multifactorial and or
> > > polygenic "causes" for Autism? For example, a genetic predisposition
> > > (involving one or many or fragments of genes) alongside environmental
> > > factors including vaccination?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > >
> > > Laurence Bathurst
> > > School of Occupation and Leisure Sciences
> > > Faculty of Health Sciences
> > > University of Sydney
> > >
> > > PO Box 170
> > > Lidcombe NSW 1825
> > > Australia
> > >
> > > Please use home phone or mobile number
> > > Home Ph: 61 2 9818 2050
> > > Mobile Ph: 0407 069 441
> > >
> > > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Larry Arnold" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 8:57 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Research clears MMR with Autism.... What's the future
> > > now?
> > >
> > > | I happen to know that autism is hereditary, not a conspiracy
> > > |
> > > | In the United states there is a high degree of irrationalism
> > > driven by the
> > > | cultural necessity in that society of blaming someone and then
> > > trying to
> > > get
> > > | compensation.
> > > |
> > > | Because a case is won in court does not mean that a scientific
> > > fact has
> > > been
> > > | established, else we would still be holiding to the vaticans
> > > decisionswith
> > > | regard to Galileo.
> > > |
> > > | I think we would be wasting valuable money, wasting valuable
> > > scientists,if
> > > | we were not spending the money on providing services for autism
> > > in all its
> > > | manifestations and levels.
> > > |
> > > | Some people though, think in headlines and slogans, read a piece of
> > > reserch
> > > | but do not criticically evaluate it and masss hysteria results.
> > > |
> > > | I too have aspergers, but I do not believe one half of what Colin
> > > does,nor
> > > | do I go about my life finding things to condemn all the time even
> > > if it
> > > | appears that way.
> > > |
> > > | Larry
> > > |
> > > | > -----Original Message-----
> > > | > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> > > | > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of ColRevs
> > > | > Sent: 22 July 2003 23:36
> > > | > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > | > Subject: Research clears MMR with Autism.... What's the future
> > > now?| >
> > > | >
> > > | > Research clears MMR with Autism; What the future now?... I
> > > would like to
> > > | > hear your views... See link to BBC news-story at:-
> > > | > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1808826.stm ...
> > > | >
> > > | > 'Professor Brent Taylor of the Royal Free who led the research
> > > | > told BBC News
> > > | > Online: "There is no evidence'....
> > > | >
> > > | > What are your thoughts and viewpoints? send them to myself or
> > > send your
> > > | > comments to Paul Shattock, Autism Research Unit, University of
> > > | > Sunderland....
> > > | >
> > > | > What about the Californian Study, USA, being carried-out on the
> > > | > environmental-effects of the causes of Autism... Should 'we' in
> > > the U.K.
> > > | > ignore this stud?
> > > | >
> > > | > I believe that a U.K study should now be carried-out... Does
> > > anyoneagree?
> > > | >
> > > | > Please forward to other forums, groups and individuals within your
> > > network
> > > | > for their urgent comments and viewpoints, in which needs to be
> > > researchin
> > > | > an open-dialogue from a qualitative 'real-people's experiences
> > > of what
> > > | > people's views are on this research and where should research
> > > go in the
> > > | > future.
> > > | >
> > > | > Regards
> > > | >
> > > | > Colin Revell, Hull, England and a recent diagnosed adult with
> > > Aspergers| > Syndrome
> > > | >
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