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Subject:

Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician

From:

Richard Pope <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Richard Pope <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:27:51 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (110 lines)

It would also help if there was an effective professional association to argue on the behalf of us!

-----Original Message-----
From: The free list for all gis job announcements [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Andrew Bent-Marshall
Sent: 10 July 2003 10:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician


This discussion seems to have been knocking around for some time now. Yet, to me, the solution is quite simple.  If you are happy to work for this price, whether as a stepping stone or not, then apply for the job.  If you think the job/pay is beneath you, then don't apply for it - wait for something else.

The company concerned may be satisfied with the quality of work they can get for 6 an hour, they may not.  If they are satisfied then fair enough, why should they pay more when they don't have to?  If they are not satisfied with the quality of work they will realise pretty quickly that they need to offer more in order to get the people/quality they require.

By the way, as a general "Environmental Management" post-graduate with a few GIS modules under my belt I did six months as a poorly paid GIS temp.  Without it however, I would not have got my first full time GIS job, which, in turn, would not have lead to my move into Contaminated Land work...for which I am now an acting Principal Officer (having more than doubled my salary in 3 years).   We've all got to start somewhere so I wouldn't knock that first 'foot-in-the-door' opportunity too much.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: Laine Skinner [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 10 July 2003 10:09
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: We all have to start somewhere - RE GIS technician


Although I tend to agree with your general view, this is in the context of a position advertised at 6 per hour. This is a skilled job requiring someone with 6 months experience. I believe many skilled graduates (in any geo- related discipline) will see this salary as a joke. Someone without a degree, straight from A-levels with some experience in GIS related fields would also see this as an underpaid job. Perhaps not to the same extent as a skilled grad., but along the same lines.

More importantly, if I outsourced this work for my company, I would be particularly worried about the 'quality' of the work which may be completed by offering a post at this level. As you point out, this is probably a critical stage of the process and fundamental to the overall quality and success of the GIS. 

I agree that any candidate for this position would only be looking to use this post as a quick stepping stone - which is not the sort of attitude for ANY job - if you are looking for quality in the final product. 

I do not think the question concerning whether or not this job and salary is 'beneath' anyone - it is what sort of quality can the employer expect by offering this type of wage. Maybe they will be lucky this time round and get a good person in, but as a general business practise to offer such a low wage? At some point quality will suffer.

 
Laine



On Thu, 2003-07-10 at 09:31, Mr O. J. Tomlinson wrote:
> Anthony
> Not all people who want to work in GIS are GIS graduates. Some have 
> degree's in Geo related areas (with perhaps a couple of modules of GIS 
> and a project under their belts) and would see the post advertised as 
> one which did not make to many demands in terms of specific GIS 
> requirements, but offered a way into the GIS industry for those with 
> some experience. The salary may not be great and may not appeal to 
> those who clearly see such a job and salary as beneath them, but many 
> good graduates will see it as an opportunity and a quick stepping 
> stone to better things - which these days is the major route of career 
> progression. You may also wish to remind yourself (as someone based in 
> academia) that you are given a great deal of freedom and support to 
> develop your skills and expertise at little or no cost, which is a 
> luxury many employers or individuals can no longer easily afford. I do 
> agree however that the GIS industry faces the paradox that what are 
> often the most critical jobs on which quality is based are usually the 
> worst paid in the industry.
> 
> Oliver Tomlinson
> Senior Lecturer in GIS and Remote Sensing (formerly an untrained 
> monkey) University of Derby
> 
> To unsubscribe or modify your gis-jobs settings, please visit: 
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/gis-jobs
-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Dr Laine Skinner  
  
Department of Geography,                Yr Adran Ddaearyddiaeth,
University of Wales: Swansea,           Prifysgol Cymru:  Abertawe,
Singleton Park,                         Parc Singleton,
Swansea, SA2 8PP, UK.                   Abertawe, SA2 8PP, Cymru, UK.

Tel/Ffon:  +44 (0)1792 513163
Fax/Ffacs: +44 (0)1792 295955
http://www.swan.ac.uk/geog/
      
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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