Quoting "Emmott,Stephen" <[log in to unmask]>:

> Brian,
>
> [Apologies for the delay in reply: post launch issues...]

Hi Stephen

...
> 'The metadata is the data' means that either the metadata can be
> reliably extracted from the structured data as and when it is required
> or that there is enough structure to obviate the need for metadata.

Or - and this is my main point - the metadata is created (semi-) automatically
at the time of creation of the (structured or unstructured) data.

I'm currently at the EUNIS conference and in a keynot talk this morning Erik
Duval (a developer of IEEE LOM metadata specification) argued that we must "kill
off the electronic form".  By this he meant we shouldn't have separate manual
processes for creating metadata.

So if I am writing a poem the computer knows who I am, knows where I am, knows
the rights of my work (it belongs to my University), etc.
...
> To couch this in IWMW terms, we're back to gurus again; there aren't
> enough of them around to get the job done now that the WWW is pervasive!

AGreed - it's not an issue of getting people to create metadata it's a question
of getting gurus to write the clever software.

Brian

PS I'm aware of all of the difficulties of this type of approach.


>         Stephen...
>
> * I use the term 'content' to refer to data, infromation and more:
> poetry is neither data nor information. To keep the email short, these
> terms are used interchangeably.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brian Kelly [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 24 June 2003 11:21
> To: Emmott,Stephen; [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Semantic Web and UK HEIs (was RE: New LSE website launched 23rd
> June)
>
>
>
> ...
> > I'd welcome constructive criticism from colleagues at other HEIs and
> > would encourage a debate on our ability as a community to make a
> > transition to the 'semantic web'. One question I always ask regarding
> > metadata: Where are the tools? (i.e., tools that the owners/
> > publishers of content can use)
>
> Hi Stephen
>    As the person who chose the topic of the Semantic Web as a plenary
> talk at the recent Institutional Web Management Workshop I guess I
> should respond :-)
>   I am very much aware that there is not a clear understanding of what
> is meant by the Semantic Web and what we can gain from it.  Let me give
> you my views.
>    With a traditional XML-based Web you can do lots of useful things. As
> you've done at LSE, you store your data in XML and use XSLT to transorm
> it to XHTML.  You could also use XSLT to transform it to other formats.
>    However if a third party wishes to integrate your data with theirs
> and with other data, there is a problem.  You will have defined your
> fields (your XML Schema - i.e. <STUDENT-NUMBER>, <STAFF-ID>,
> <VICE-CHANCELLOR>, etc.) according to local needs.  Other organisations
> will use different schemas.  SO to merge the data or search across
> different data sets we need either to standardise our schemas
> (politically different), put the knowledge in the applications
> (expensive, not scalable) or adopt a mechanism which allows different
> schemas to be integrated.  The Semantic Web provides a solution to this
> latter approach.
>    As an example have a look at http://triplestore.aktors.org/ (having
> first installed Mozilla, as this only works in Mozilla).  This work has
> been carried out by a research group at Southampton University.
>    This takes data from a number of sources (e.g. the RAE data which is
> held on HERO) and converts this to RDF (using a HTML scraping approach).
> This can then be integrated with data from other sources - as can be
> seen if you have a play in Mozilla.
>    Rather than a research group converting the data to RDF (and maybe
> getting it wrong) it would be better if the data owner made their data
> available in RDF.  This could be then integratd with third party data.
>    The bits of magic that make this possible are RDF and URIs.  RDF is
> an XML format which includes a mathematical expression which defines
> relationships between resources.  The relationships are not defined in
> the RDF language but at a URI - so RDF is extensible.
>    It would seem that the benefits from the Semantic Web are gained when
> you wish to merge data from disparate sources.  There is then a question
> of who should fund the investment to do this.
>    My thoughts - which may contain errors due to my flawed understanding
> of the Semantic Web.
>
> Brian
>
> PS In response to your question, where are the tools - in the example I
> gave the metadata is the data so there isn't a need for metadata
> management tools.
>
> > Best wishes,
> >
> >         Stephen...
> >
> > Stephen Emmott
> > Projects Director (Editor in Chief, LSE website)
> > Business Systems & Services, LSE
> >
>


--
Brian Kelly
UKOLN
University of Bath
BATH
BA2 7AY