JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2003

POETRYETC 2003

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: 1st and last channeling

From:

Frederick Pollack <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Apr 2003 18:23:21 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (84 lines)

Douglas Barbour wrote:
>
> Frederick
> >
> >Aw, c'mon, loosen up, Doug.  This is a day for celebration.  I, the
> >Greatest Power in the Consciously Known Universe, say so.
> >
> >I suppose this IS an "illegal" war!!  And SH's regime was "legal"!  By
> >George, I feel terrible about that!  We should take it very seriously!!
> >The way Israel should take very seriously Lawrence U's note (some time
> >back but it was, bless you, noticed) to the effect that Israel exists on
> >stolen land.  And presumably should therefore go away or continually beg
> >forgiveness or pay reparations for its existence.
> >
> >As for your other points, yes, we should get supplies flowing pronto.
> >Maybe this list could get up a collection.  Direct action?  Make the
> >State live up to its responsibilities?  Maybe send an email to the
> >proper congressmen or MPs?  I'd sign.  Am largely broke but I'd
> >contribute. Or would it be too ... compromising, somehow, to take such
> >action?
>
> I admit to just sitting here (like you who have also admitted this), but I
> also am trying to get at the nuances & the problems. Was Sh's regime
> 'legal'? an interesting question, & one I wouldn't want to give any clear
> answer to, but it was accepted (hell it was half created) by the US, the UN
> etc. There are a lot of regimes out there (many of them supported by the US
> govt) I'd like to see go (others, like, say, Cuba, I'd also like to see go,
> believe me).  Still I worry about responsibilities that go with all that
> power, & I think that's at the heart of a lot of the anti-war thinking
> among the people I know (including, as said, a lot of y USAmerican friends).
>
> As for lawrence Upton's note on Israel, I don't believe he was suggesting
> that Israel itself disappear, but that it has to not only halt the uilding
> of settlemenst on Palestinian land but be willing to give up most of the
> ones already (illegally) there. That the Palestinains (& all Arabs) must
> also acknowledge the right of Israel to exist is also a given.
>
> The various Un NGOS and others are saying on the Canadianmedia (whether or
> not on the US ones, which do strike me as having a rather limited simplex
> vision on this war), that things have broken down everywhere in Iraq, that
> the people desperately need the kind of help they were giving but can't
> now. I am sure that the military personnel there would want to do thier
> best to help them & I do not blame individuals there; but from the top
> there has been little sense of what needs to be done beyond, say, toppling
> those statues, bombing the hell out ot Baghdad, etc. Oh yes, finding those
> elusive WMDs (like the Scarlet Pimpernel?), 'getting' SH himself, there
> were a few other things they used to talk about before it became a war of
> liberation, as each excuse fell by the wayside.
>
> I'll accept that you believe in the 'usefulness' of accidental consequences
> for the good of the actions of people you despise; let me be at least wary
> of the negative possibilities in such consequences...
>
> Doug
>
>

I've said repeatedly that the agenda of our ruling class - or certain
segments of it - is not mine, that their motives for freeing Iraq are no
doubt as self-serving as their motives for supporting Saddam in the
Eighties.  That applies to WMDs also.  If they aren't found, all the
better.  They were a convenient excuse.  The reason for dislodging the
Ba'ath regime should have been the nature of the regime.  I'm hoping
that retroactively that will BECOME the reason, and the basis of the
precedent I once mentioned.  I wonder if you saw, on your admirably
unbiased unowned media, a brief clip of an Iraqi showing us, in the
rubble of a Party cellar, the book in which his fingerprints had been
recorded, and then gesturing to demonstrate the tortures to which he had
been subjected.  I fantasize an army whose enemy would be any torturer,
any mutilator of women, any oppressor of labor, any teacher of
irrationalist superstition, and any "culture" that supports them.  An
army that, in Wilfred Owen's words, "wars on death for life, not men for
flags."  Of course a bit of consensus-building would have to be done
before such a force could exist.  Not least among intellectuals, and not
least on the issues of "multiculturalism" and the priority of action.

Meanwhile I largely agree with your points.  Including the one about the
Israeli settlements.  I hate all fundamentalisms, Jewish and Christian
as well as Moslems.  One minor cavil: two days ago there was a five-hour
firefight under an overpass near Saddam City.  Two marines killed, many
wounded.  I'm sorry I forgot the name of the cameraman; it was the most
riveting war footage I've seen. I mention this only in connection with
the problem of aid distribution.

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager