JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2003

POETRYETC 2003

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Experiment

From:

tombell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:09:48 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (158 lines)

the enclosed might be relevant here.  It's a review I'm working on for David
Silver's cyberculture.  a differnt perspective on space vs. place. critical
comments are also welcome

tom bell

Thick Description


Review of Dourish, Paul, Where the Action Is: the Foundations of Embodied
Interaction, Cambridge, MIT, 2001.


As someone who always seems to be in the thick* of things I eagerly
anticipated this book. In some ways my expectations were fulfilled. However,
I was disappointed not to receive much guidance through the action or
process of being in the thick of things. Perhaps that was an unrealistic
expectation and I'm sure similar books will soon be appearing But let me be
a little more specific.

Dourish does do an admirable job of weaving together some of the
philosophical and cultural underpinnings of this approach to the
technological world we now inhabit and would like to appropriate. He also
presents a refreshing perspective on the internet world where newer versions
are often pursued for their own sakes with an alarming (to me) tendency
toward the technological and abstract.

Sometimes people have been known to pursue a version of themselves which is
not tied into flesh and blood reality, but as Dourish points out this is an
impossibility psychologically as well as physically. "' Embodiment does not
simply mean 'physical manifestation.' Rather it means being grounded in
everyday, mundane experience.**" and not cut off from this experience as
some followers of Descartes*** might wish.

Dourish furnishes us with a readable and comprehensive grounding in the
philosophical and psychological bases of a view of humans in relationship to
the world. He draws on the thinking of such figures as Edmund Husserl,
Martin Heidegger, Alfred Schutz, Maurice Merleau-Ponty. J. J. Gibson,
Michael Polanyi, and Clifford Geertz and their disciples. This is not just a
list of names and terms such as participant observation, thick experience,
being-in-the-world, and the 'tacit' dimension. They and the perspectives
they represent open onto a board spectrum of thinking in the recent past
across the spectrum of knowledge were concerned with ways humans could
meaningfully**** interact with the world.

You will note here that the operative word is 'thinking.' This window on the
process of a human activity is refreshing to me as a poet where I take it as
a given that it is the process that matters or means. While there is a
tradition here I don't want to get side-tracked into a discussion of history
here. Suffice it to say that what matters to me is the writing or reading
process and not the poem as poem that means.

Dourish analyzes the importance of these thinkers and the movement's
potential role in 'getting in touch' by computer in an embodied way.
'Getting in touch' and embodied interaction are familiar to me as a
practicing psychology but as Dourish makes clear they are also familiar in
your everyday world when you as a person sit down at your computer - here he
is talking about you and your computer, not the ideas of you and your
computer. We're in the world of apples, as he says, not ideas of apples. You
touch your computer and you are in touch with your computer. In a real way
you are a person who can be in touch with others. In a real life way you can
tell when you are being real as a person and in your interactions. I would
hope so.

You might say, "fine, but how does that affect the design of computer
systems and games?" Dourish talks about the difference between space and
place. Let me here, insert a couple of examples for you to consider:

1. The other day I walked through my local library where people were waiting
in line for their 30 minutes at the computer. While computers and libraries
have been connected in space (and the minds of theoreticians) for over fifty
years (in my recollections) it's only now that people are sitting down,
putting their books and notes next to them on the table and 'appropriating'
the computers to use them.

2. Today on an internet international mailing list (Webartery, if you want
to look through the archives) two participants had an interaction about
gardening both are artists and gardeners. One was having difficulty
appropriating or using the interactive software the other participated or
dwelled within. The other lamented the difficulty he was having getting
other gardeners to join an internet gardening community. They negotiated
these issues. I don't have the answers.

I do think this is a common occurrence on the internet which relates to
people appropriating a place to inhabit. For Dourish place includes: 1.
attention to activities that occur in a space rather than the structure of
the space; the emergence of practice (knowledge shared by a particular set
of people based on their common experience over time), and 3. It refers to a
community of practice, with community defined by a particular set of skills
or training or a particular point in space and/or moment in time. What this
long sentence is saying is that we are, after all is said and done, people
out here on the net.

When Dourish talks about a place-centric view of design he is making inroads
into an important area that affects a very wide range of concerns in today's
internet and real worlds. There are now art museums of many types on the net
these days, for example, and many types of books and scrolls, and ebooks,
and etceteras, but the key question here remains how to induce people to
appropriate and use them or inhabit the internet. Museums in the real world
and on the net sometimes have had and continue to have difficulty
'appropriating' people and books of all types have a long history with this
problem. In my recollections it appears that there have always been and will
continue to be some of us (maybe the periphery) who inhabit the books and
the art museums. The hope some might have is for a way to induce the many
into appropriating a place for themselves here in the books, in the museums,
and on the internet. Part of the hope is that this might occur without
technological (in a pre-Dourish sense) and commercial inducements?

As I read this book, I didn't get the usual "get a new system" or "buy this
or that gadget." This book is also not a "how-to." This is a book for
designers of systems. It is a beginning, albeit a sound beginning. There
could have been more in the way of guidance through the process of finding
oneself in the thick of Human Computer Interaction (HCI) specifically or
generally for me as a writer or viewer. There could also have been more in
the way of guidance toward becoming a "being-in-the-world" designer although
one could of course turn to the philosophers on this or examine field notes
in particular other domains for hints. As I said above this might be an
unrealistic expectation here.

I do come down heavy here on this issue as I think Dourish is on to
something. He just doesn't carry it far enough into the actual process he
examines. As he points out in a slightly different context, "there is a
considerable difference between using the real world as a metaphor for
interaction and using it as a medium for interaction." What we have here is
HCI as a metaphor for interaction I would have liked to hear more about HCI
as a medium of interaction.

But I am hopeful that other books will be soon be appearing to examine and
explicate this important area for designers, writers, and users.

---

*Dourish uses this apt phrase as applied to Malinowski by Geertz who derived
it from Ryle but as he points out it is also applicable to approaches in
many fields,. He includes here participant observation and the 'tacit'
dimension. My 'thickness' credentials include being a patient as well as a
psychologist ( http://www.healthandage.com/Home/gm=0!gc=15!gid2=1259).

** Dourish, p/ 125.

*** I don't want to get into this too far, but A. R. Damasio's Descartes'
Error: Emotions, Reason, and the Human Brain, (NY. Putnam, 1994) is worth
reading here.

*** As Dourish ends, the question of meaning is one that will be addressed
in a future book although he does explore ontology and epistemology in a
readable fashion here.

Try to like something
__
 |ry
    tO
       |
       Li
         ke
something and the anger
will GO

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager