JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC Archives

POETRYETC Archives


POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2003

POETRYETC 2003

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Musings

From:

Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 11 May 2003 08:47:34 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

At 9:03 AM -0700 10/5/03, Jon Corelis wrote:
>The Muse is literally the first person to appear in Western literature
>(Iliad 1.1.)  Following this line of thought, it's perhaps interesting that
>"anger" is the first word in Western literature.  And continuing our perusal
>of Homer, I've always thought it delightful that we don't get more than two
>pages into the oldest book of our literature before we find some old fart
>saying, "You know, back in the old days when men were really men ..."
>(Iliad 1.259ff.)
>
>==================================================
>Sappho incidentally apparently didn't have a problem with the idea of the
>Muses, since she says in so many words that her life was dedicated to them.


Hi Jon

I said way way back that the Muse I was talking about didn't have
anything much to do with the one Homer invoked.  And in fact one of
my own sequences is caled Mnemosyne, after memory, mother of the nine
muses.  Mnemosyne alone knows how to contemplate the past, the
present and the future simultaneously and to know the totality of
things in one glance: it is easy to see why in an oral culture she
was so celebrated, because she was, literally, culture.  What the
muse gives to the ancient poet is _memory_, without which he could
not enumerate the name sof the gods or warriors or the cosmogony of
the world.  Before there were nine muses, there were three: Melet,
Mneme and Aoide, in a shrine in Helicon, who indicated three modes of
poetic activity: the first, mental exercise, concentration and
attention; the second, memory and the third the completed poem.  By
permitting the poet to share their memory and vision of both the
divine and the mortal, the muses allow the poet to inaugurate the
real, and to participate in the ordering of the world.  This seems to
me a very different and rather interesting idea of muses, as opposed
to the more modern romantic idea, which is the one I have problems
with.

At 9:03 AM -0700 10/5/03, Jon Corelis wrote:
>I'm not sure what there is to say about patronage that hasn't been in dozens
>of books. Since poetry has no commercial value, its producers in order to
>produce it simply have to be given time, which means money.  The patron's
>motives are perfectly understandable:  to gain the prestige of supporting
>activity which has recognized cultural value, and secondarily to have a few
>flattering personal references in the output.  Patronage no longer exists
>because we now live in a society in which there are no noncommercial values,
>so in general the only arts which can be produced, and the only ones which
>are valued, are those which make money.  But the record of patronage, when
>it existed,  at producing poetry is pretty good:  it's worth putting up with
>"O Maecenas descendent of many kings..." to have "Never seek to know,
>Leuconoe,..."

Patronage does still exist; on the whole the patrons are now
governments and universities.

Best

A

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager