There is a delete button. I know, because I often use it. On a PC laptop
it's bottom right, just in from the arrow keys.
Mark
At 02:48 PM 4/11/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Randolph,
>
>I have to say that I do think David's posts have been so discouraging to
>me. I was on poetryetc for a while and then signed off, in part because of
>a sense of weariness with David's persistently and underhandedly
>aggressive posts. Someone I think in this discussion suggested there was a
>passive/agressive element involved, and I think so too at times. When I
>was replying to Dave's request for evidence of my feeling that his work
>had elements of sexism in it, I became aware that there have been several
>"episodes" like this, the discussion of the Dufy poem, the implication of
>Dave's having the goods on her and the comments on the literary scene, or
>even long ago Erminia Passsananti leaving the list because David presumed
>to speak to her as if he were Alison's representative. So I do think there
>are these continuing episodes that always for whatever reason center
>around women writers and issue of gender. I came back onto the list
>recently but was considering leaving it again this last week. In part
>because after my discussion of David's elements of sexism in his posts, a
>discussion which was carefully impersonal on my part, and which became
>more and more
>personal on his, I wasn't sure it was worth the trouble. Also I agreed to
>accept Alison's plea for backchanelling and indeed have posted little on
>any subject since, while David continued to reply and expanded the
>argument to include a few short posts with Liz and this much longer
>quarrel with Alison. I do think that there is sometimes an atmosphere on
>the list which veers toward harassment. This all began with my noting
>David's shit poem, Dominic's in the ass poem, and Gregory's girl of Essex
>joke and wondering what was going on? it seemed to me to veer upon
>creating a hostile atmosphere, an atmosphere of sexual harassment, and so
>it would be evaluated and responded to in many companies that would have
>to worry about legal action. I don't know if other women on the list feel
>this way, but I do notice too that usually there are very few women
>posting at all about anything, and surely that's not without significance.
>
>Best,
>
>Rebecca
>
>Rebecca Seiferle
>www.thedrunkenboat.com-------Original Message-------
>From: wildhoney <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: 04/12/03 12:04 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: the list
>
> >
> > Plenty to think about here Geoffrey.
>
>One of the main anxieties I had was that David's posts, albeit in good
>faith, were having the effect of discouraging others from posting. It's
>beginning to look like I was way off target here. It seems rather that his
>posts are catalysts instead. I really was worried that, particularly
>certain
>women members, were being put off by the combative nature of certain of
>his
>replies. This does not seem to be the case.
>
>
>In reply to Sarah, yes, I agree. Rules and review status and so on. Hmm.
>They don't seem appropriate. Long ago, Lawrence Upton I think it was, made
>the statement that really the list is self-regulating, which is probably
>the
>way to go.
>
>Apologies to the list and to Dave in particular.
>
>best
>
>Randolph
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Geoffrey Gatza" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 2:22 AM
>Subject: Re: [POETRYETC] the list
>
>
> > Alison and Randolph seem to alway lable any referencfe that doesn't suit
> > them to be harrassment !!! And when they skewer Dave, whether by
>accident
>or
> > not, they seem to not see the evil of their ways. Good gravy. Can't you
>too
> > find a way to be owners of this list and members without stepping on
>toes?
> > Or this this question harrassment too, no doubt it will be.
> >
> > I too am beginning to question why I am even on this list! There are
>real
> > poetic conversations on other lists but this one houses Henry Gould,
>Kent
> > Johnson, and Dave "makin' it interesting' B. This seems to make up for
>the
> > lack of productive management. Maybe a break is in order for Alison too.
> >
> >
> > Geoffrey Gatza
> > editor BlazeVOX2k3
> >
> > __o
> > _`\<,_
> > (*) / (*)
> >
> > <a target=_blank href="http://www.blazevox.org">www.blazevox.org</a>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 7:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: the list
> >
> >
> > > Alison wrote:
> > >
> > > "I'm afraid that I agree with Trevor's analysis of passive aggression;
>and
> > > that David's
> > > "defence" of me in that particular instance backfired, as I don't
> > > find Frederick's posts offensive, even if I deeply disgree with them,
> > > but I did find David's description of me subtly demeaning, even if it
> > > was superficially well intended. Taken in tandem with at least half
> > > a dozen unwelcome personal f/c references to me recently, it's coming
> > > close to harrassment (I do not say it is _actually_ harrassment). I
> > > do not wish to go further into this, as it is actually personal"
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm very sad that you feel so Alison, I do think that this is a
>classic
> > case
> > > of e-mail texture problems, even though we've met each other,
>something
> > has
> > > gone wrong in the lines of communication. Misunderstandings,
> > > misunderstandings, that's all we ever meet, so to speak.
> > >
> > >
> > > All the Best
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > > David Bircumshaw
> > >
> > > Leicester, England
> > >
> > > Home Page
> > >
> > > A Chide's Alphabet
> > >
> > > Painting Without Numbers
> > >
> > > <a target=_blank
>href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm">http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm</a>
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 12:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: the list
> > >
> > >
> > > I am very sorry a casual and therefore a discussion with no attempt
> > > to be fair went f/c. I am quite aware that at his best and most
> > > thoughtful, Dave can be a stimulating member of the list.
> > >
> > > At 6:32 PM -0400 4/11/03, Sarah Peters wrote:
> > > >The idea that people who obviously love the list , and are not
> > > >intentionally trying to ruffle feathers, are put on review status is
>the
> > > >kind of thing that makes me consider "resigning."
> > >
> > > This is what I meant by "between a rock and a hard place". I too
> > > don't think disciplining anyone is a good idea. I'm afraid that I
> > > agree with Trevor's analysis of passive aggression; and that David's
> > > "defence" of me in that particular instance backfired, as I don't
> > > find Frederick's posts offensive, even if I deeply disgree with them,
> > > but I did find David's description of me subtly demeaning, even if it
> > > was superficially well intended. Taken in tandem with at least half
> > > a dozen unwelcome personal f/c references to me recently, it's coming
> > > close to harrassment (I do not say it is _actually_ harrassment). I
> > > do not wish to go further into this, as it is actually personal.
> > >
> > > Best
> > >
> > > A
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > > Alison Croggon
> > > Editor
> > > Masthead Online
> > > <a target=_blank
>href="http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/">http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/</a>
> > >
> > > Home page
> > > <a target=_blank
>href="http://www.users.bigpond.com/acroggon/">http://www.users.bigpond.com/acroggon/</a>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> >
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