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PHD-DESIGN  2003

PHD-DESIGN 2003

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Subject:

Re: Just wondering

From:

Jon Nelson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Jon Nelson <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 11 Feb 2003 11:55:54 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

Reply

Reply

Chris (and others),

Thanks for all the input. I guess that is what I get for "just wondering."

In the book, "Kill Devil Hill," it becomes apparent that while driven by a
dream the brothers spent much of their time solving technological or
engineering problems... in addition to managing the media :) They were dealing
with design in a very principled, methodological way.

You bring up an important issue to begin with: is there a difference between a
generative idea and a generative principle? I will be the first to admit that
I am not exactly sure how the term generative idea is being used. The first I
had heard of Utzon's Orange--or TRIZ and Altschuller--was here. (But that is
why I came here. To learn new ideas, new people, and new ways of seeing the
world.)

Additionally, Lubomir mentioned the distinction between mechanical design and
engineering and styling/aesthetic design and implications for the use of
terminology... but what are the implications? Maybe that is too big of a
question for the list. I would be happy with a reference.

I guess that leads to the more important question at the moment, and that is,
what is the nature of this list? Is it mechanical design, styling/aesthetic
design, general design, or some other thing? I don't want to be off topic.

Thank you all very much,

Jon


>===== Original Message From Chris Heape <[log in to unmask]> =====
>Hi Jon,
>
>I'm not sure how much this will help you, but I couldn't help thinking
>that the generative idea in this case was the dream / idea
>of "getting up there with the birds".
>
>The flapping wings was one attempt at solving the task and realising
>the dream.
>
>You mention Utzon's orange. I take this to be a metaphor or
>representation, that maybe helped him get hold of an intuitive
>possibility or idea for a solution.
>Maybe there is a difference in your term "generative principle" and the
>term "generative idea".
>
>I'm not that hot on aviation history, but the Wright brothers got it
>right. Was their dream to get up there with the birds
>or was it to solve an engineering principle?
>
>Best regards,
>
>Chris.
>
>Jon Nelson wrote:
>
>"...He made the point that as long as would-be flyers used the
>operational
>principle of "flapping wings", where the force created by flapping of
>the
>wings needed to be greater than the force of gravity on the individual,
>then
>nothing would progress; it works fine for birds but doesn't appear to be
>useful for people. It was not until we switched to the operational
>principle
>of moving a wing through air, with the force of pushing the wing forward
>creating a force of lift sufficient to overcome the effect of gravity,
>that
>progress really began. The operational principle made the difference.
>
>But, not only is the operational principle a general statement of
>bringing
>forces together, it is a structured statement. It is quantifiable. In
>some
>ways it is tangible. As I read through the previous posts on the
>subject the
>concept of the orange came up as a generative principle. I don't mean
>to treat
>the issue lightly (because I probably don't understand completely) but
>to me
>the notion of an orange as a generative principle lacks a quantifiable
>structure that I think is important for being able to rigorously apply a
>generative principle to a design task or to communicate it to others...
>"
>-------------
>
>from:
>
>Chris Heape
>Senior Researcher - Design Didactics / Design Practice
>Mads Clausen Institute
>University of Southern Denmark
>Sønderborg
>Denmark
>
>http://www.mci.sdu.dk
>
>Work:
>tel: +45 6550 1671
>e.mail: chris @mci.sdu.dk
>
>Home:
>tel +45 7630 0380
>e.mail: [log in to unmask]

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