Hi List
I think the issue here is how we define narrative.
When people discuss narrative they tend to refer to aristolian or classical
(i.e. the great novel)
forms whose characteristics are: causal, 'stories' with beginnings middles
and ends.
There is a whole history of alternative narrative forms that don't follow
these models that always
embraced random and chance structures in the way that Jon does in his work
and the other artists mentioned.
These forms of narrative are fragmentary, more open-ended- but narratives
nonetheless and are as likely to exist in print form as new media.
In other words I think beryl's original question could be reframed to
something like "what are the links between artisits employing narrative in
new media and other media that deal with expanded narrative". I think the
issue of narrative control is a bit of a red herring truth be told because
the artist always either assembles the database (and by definition it's
entry and exit points) or authors the algorithim that selects the material.
Control is still there but it is manifest in a different way/form. And we
haven't even begun to discuss the interface......
Umberto Eco pretty much summed it up in 1965 when he discusses open works.
He notes that "while a work may describe the possibility for numerous
personal interventions on the part of the audience", it does not describe a
work which displays disorder in its internal relations, as in essence the
work retains the "structural vitality" given it by the artist:
"We can say that the work in movement is the possibility of numerous
personal interventions, but it is not an invitation to indiscriminate
participation. The invitation offers the possibility for an orientated
insertion into something which always remains the world intended by the
author. In other words, the author offers the...addressee a work to be
completed. He does not know the exact fashion in which his work will be
concluded, but is aware that once completed the work in question will still
be his own. It will not be a different work and at the end of the
interpretative dialogue a form which is his form will have been organised,
even though it may have been assembled by an outside party in a particular
way that he could not have foreseen." - Eco E. p.19
Tom Corby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: Video/Data/New Media: Sep Theme
I agree with jorn, that there is no essential loss of narrative
control, regardless of whether a user/viewer creates their own
narrative path from navigating a data-base, or if a random or
algorithmic system is employed to generate endlessly unique
expressions of such information
I think it was John Cage that said something like, '...in my work I
use chance operations, and recognising chance's place does not mean
sacrificing everything to it..'
>jorn said:
>
>the framework structure is part of the narrative strategy: hence there is
no
>loss of narrative control but a broadening of narrative, in the sense that
>the eventualities of narrative sequence need to be taken into account. the
>narrative becomes somehow fluid.
> > Von: Beryl Graham <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>> I'd be curious to hear from the list how those from a video background
>> deal with the 'loss of narrative control' in the move from video to
> > database, in the last few days of our discussion.
>
--
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Thomson & Craighead / http://www.thomson-craighead.net /
http://www.dot-store.com was last updated on 23rd April 2003 /
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Talk: November 6th, 2003 @Deluxe, London.
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Up next: Computer Games by Artists, Dortmund, Germany.
After that: DMZ at Limehouse town hall
Then: http://www.templatecinema.com
In 2004: Haunted Media @ Site Gallery in Sheffield, UK
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