John said in part "I have the references in earlier posts which prove
scientifically that GM do
>not decrease pesticide useage.'

John, It would help a lot if you would post the actual references to these
issues again. I've been looking at as much of the literature on GM crops,
especially Soy, and while the claims to 'more herbicide' useage are made on
the anti-GM Web pages, I cannot find it documented anywhere. I have
contacted a major grower of GM Soy here in Colorado and they tell me that
their herbicide and pesticide use is down by nearly 50%.  However, the
literature is vague on this as far as statistically reliable research

http://www.colostate.edu/programs/lifesciences/TransgenicCrops/faqpopup.html#pesticide

(This is a PDF file, you'll need Adobe to open it).

The reduction in *all* types of herbicides seems to be over ridden by the
increase in Roundup. The reduction in pesticides seemst to be problematic
due to poor or no control data. If there is conclusive scientific
information, I'd really like to see it.

Steven


>From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: "Discussion forum for environmental ethics."
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
>Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:53:37 -0700
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "STEVEN BISSELL" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:09 AM
>Subject: Re: Genetic Engineering
>
>
> > John wrote, "Ironically, though, it has been exposed that GM crops
>increase
> > pesticide
> > use."
> >
> > Steven here; I think that 'proof' is entirely antecdotal. At least from
>the
> > reports I've read on GM soybeans, (an ecological disaster even if it's
>not
> > GM) is that herbicide use goes way down and other pesticides are also
> > reduced.
> >
> > Steven
>
>I have the references in earlier posts which prove scientifically that GM
>do
>not decrease pesticide useage.
>
>And,
>
>Interesting you mentioned soybeans. Roundup ready soybeans require more
>herbicide than regular soybeans because a pre-emergent is not used. The
>problem with the pre-emergent is that there are 'residual effects' of the
>herbicide in the soil, and also that some weeds have developed resistance
>to
>the Roundup. The solution then was to develop a crop genetically that would
>be resistant to very high concentrations of Roundup, thus removing more
>weeds. Of course eventually some weeds will develop higher resistance to
>Roundup and then the GM crop will be useless. GM crops are like 'artifacts'
>really.
>
>Organic soybeans however are relatively easy to grow because soybean is a
>legume, fixes nitrogen in the soil. Thus it can be grown like clover. With
>green manuring in the fall with a crop of rye grass or something like that
>it is relatively easy to grow organic soybeans, and organic soybeans are
>not
>expensive. Most tofu on the market is made from organic soybean.
>
>However if the land owner simply rents out the land and is only interested
>in money, then chances are that it will be used to grow GM crops, because
>this type of farming requires less labour and less thought.
>
>The Bt corn does not reduce pesticide use. That was determined recently by
>the USDA (United States Department of Agriculture).
>
>
>
>
>
> >
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