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Date: 21 August 2003 00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of VICTORIA digests <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 19 Aug 2003 to 20 Aug 2003 (#2003-22)
There are 20 messages totalling 545 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. identification of plants in paintings
2. VIC glitch
3. abetting criminals
4. abetting criminals [2] (2)
5. New Woman essayists appropriating Darwin
6. Victorians and all That
7. "Blue book" readings for class (4)
8. Victorians and all that
9. John Kellett Sharpe
10. Cometh Back for Help
11. Victorian costume (3)
12. the ghost of Hume
13. Victorian costume - Howell & James (2)
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:14:30 -0700
From: Karla K Walters <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: identification of plants in paintings
Although it is Edwardian, Edith B. Holden's Country Diary of an Edwardian
Lady (published 1977) has excellent botanical paintings and scientific
identification of several of the plants you mention.
Karla Walters
Bellevue, WA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:56:09 -0500
From: Patrick Leary <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: VIC glitch
Owing to an email system outage, some postings sent to VICTORIA between
Monday evening and Tuesday afternoon may have been lost. If you sent a
posting and haven't seen it appear on the list (to check this you can
glance through the week's archive at
http://listserv.indiana.edu/archives/victoria.html ), please resend your
post to [log in to unmask], and accept my apologies for the
inconvenience.
-- Patrick
___________
Patrick Leary
listowner, VICTORIA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:51:45 +0100
From: Lee Jackson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: abetting criminals
A plea for help (I confess, as I think about plot for a novel) - can anyone
suggest examples in 19th. C. literature where a character helps an escaped
criminal (eg. offering food, shelter etc) and is punished for it? I am
assuming it was a criminal offence to do so, and there must be tons of
obvious examples. My first thought was Great Expectations, but, of course,
no-one suffers for helping Magwitch, unless my memory fails me.
Lee
www.victorianlondon.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 13:37:39 +0100
From: Lee Jackson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abetting criminals [2]
Having already received one email on this, I hasten to add that when I
wrote, in a terribly vague manner, 'no-one suffers for helping Magwitch', I
really meant in terms of the law (eg. imprisonment or fine) rather than
emotional/psychological impact - I should have made that clear!
Lee
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:30:38 +0100
From: David Clifford <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: New Woman essayists appropriating Darwin
Dear Diana,
You may already have this but if not, Annie Besant's essays are worth
looking at -- in particular The Evolution of Society (1885) and Why I am a
Socialist (1886). You might find something useful in Mona Caird as well.
best wishes
David Clifford
Homerton College
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:39:37 -0400
From: Herbert Tucker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorians and all That
At 11:04 PM 8/19/03 -0400, you wrote:
> When a sentence has an optional "that," did Victorians believe it correct
> to include it at all times? Or was it not even natural to remove it?
>
> Matt
Making the kind of proportional allowment we tend to make in general when
supposing the Victorians a couple of notches more formal than we are, you
can I think suppose that "that" had much the force then that it still
has. More likely to be omitted in letters, say, and inferentially in
natural conversation, than in a super-correct proclamation or oration.
Chip Tucker
42 Canterbury Road
Charlottesville VA 22903-4702
434 / 295 2929
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:28:17 -0500
From: "Lawrence S. Poston" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "Blue book" readings for class
For an upper-division course on "the Condition of England question"
I am interested in locating an accessible text -- by which I mean in print
and available in paperback -- that would provide excerpts from some of
the Select Committees and special commissions inquiring into sanitation,
factory and mining conditions, &c.
On-line references would be useful too, but my generation still likes hard
copy,
and, perhaps surprisingly, so do many of my students.
Many thanks for any help subscribers to this service can give. Reply off
list if you think your answer is dreadfully obvious to everyone else.
Lawrence Poston
University of Illinois at Chicago
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:56:19 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Victorians and all that
One of the most widely used textbooks in Britain and America, Lindley
Murray's English Grammar (1795, rev. 1824, reprinted many, many, many
times) has the following to say about relative pronouns in general under
the discussion of ellipsis:
In some of the common forms of speech, the relative pronoun is
usually omitted: as, "This is the man they love;" instead of, "This is the
man whom they love." "These are the goods they bought;" for, "These are
the goods which they bought. In complex sentences, it is much better to
have the relative pronoun expressed.
For treatment of actual usage, see the detailed examination by David
Denison in The Cambridge History of the English Language, vol. 4.
Certainly in frequently-occurring locutions such as those beginning "I
think," omission of the "that" was common, as in Aurora Leigh's "I think I
see my father's sister stand" or Childe Roland's "I think I never saw /
Such starved ignoble nature."
Andrew Elfenbein
University of Minnesota--Twin Cities
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:00:40 -0500
From: james murray cornelius <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: John Kellett Sharpe
Dear List:
Any information on Sharpe, editor of the short-lived London weekly
newspaper The Realm (Feb.-July 1864) will be much appreciated. I've had
no luck in DNB, Boase, NRA website, BL website, or other usual sources.
James Cornelius, Univ. of Illinois, [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:45:13 +0100
From: Susan Hoyle <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cometh Back for Help
Isn't there a phrase about 'coming the heavy father' -- as in behaving like
a tyrannical male? Or am I dreaming it? I mention it, although I am not in
a position to check it just now, because I thought it might be relevant to
the query...
Susan
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:03:49 -0300
From: Rohan Maitzen <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "Blue book" readings for class
Lawrence Poston writes
> I am interested in locating an accessible text -- by which I mean in print
> and available in paperback -- that would provide excerpts from some of
> the Select Committees and special commissions inquiring into sanitation,
> factory and mining conditions, &c.
You might look at the relatively new collection "The Victorian Age: An
Anthology of Sources and Documents" (Routledge, 2001, ed. Josephine Guy),
though it may be more comprehensive in its topics than you want for a course
specifically on the "Condition of England" question. I recently taught an
upper-level seminar on the same topic and found the Broadview editions of
the obvious novels (Mary Barton, Hard Times) included extremely helpful
excerpts of the sort you describe.
Rohan Maitzen
Dalhousie University
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:01:46 -0400
From: Anna Jones <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: abetting criminals [2]
Margaret Hale in North and South seems on the brink of suffering for
sheltering her brother, but of course, she's too pure and beautiful for
anyone to *really* suspect of unlawful behavior, so she doesn't. That's the
only one I can think of right off the top of my head.
In fact, I can think of several instances where people help criminals but
aren't punished (Commander George in Bleak House does nothing but harbor
fugitives, it seems). Mary Braddon's Trail of the Serpent is all about
helping the wrongly accused hero before and after he escapes from the asylum
where he's confined for murdering his uncle, and if I remember rightly, no
one ever seems in danger for aiding and abetting.
Best,
AMJ
Anna M. Jones
Assistant Professor
Department of English
University of Central Florida
Orlando, FL 32816-1346
407-823-3406
----------
"To a man not accustomed to thinking there is nothing in the world so
difficult as to think. After some loose fashion we turn things in our mind
and ultimately reach some decision, guided probably by our feelings at the
last moment rather than any process of ratiocination;--and then we think
that we have thought." --Anthony Trollope
> -----Original Message-----
> From: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Lee Jackson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 08:38
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [VICTORIA] abetting criminals [2]
>
>
> Having already received one email on this, I hasten to add that when I
> wrote, in a terribly vague manner, 'no-one suffers for helping
> Magwitch', I
> really meant in terms of the law (eg. imprisonment or fine) rather than
> emotional/psychological impact - I should have made that clear!
>
> Lee
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:47:46 -0700
From: Priti Joshi <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "Blue book" readings for class
I have found E. Royston's Pike's _Human Documents of the Industrial
Revolution in Britain_ most useful in my teaching. The selections are
organized thematically and tend to be too short, but Pike makes up for it
in coverage and at the end of the day one gets a good hunk of Chadwick,
Peter Gaskell, J. P. Kay, and excerpts from various PP. I don't know if
the book is in print -- it was first published in 1966 and has had
printings through 1978.
Also, Elaine Freedgood has just recently edited a volume in the Oxford
"Victorian Archives Series" called _Factory Production in 19th c
Britain_. The selections might not be quite what you are looking for, but
it's worth a glance. The selections are thoughtful, extended and include
Martineau, Babbage, Owen, J.P. Kay, Peter Gaskell, Oastler, Engels, Ruskin
& Morris, etc.
Good luck,
Priti.
> Lawrence Poston writes
>
> I am interested in locating an accessible text -- by which I mean in print
> and available in paperback -- that would provide excerpts from some of
> the Select Committees and special commissions inquiring into sanitation,
> factory and mining conditions, &c.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Priti Joshi
Dept of English & Comparative Literature
San Diego State University
5500 Campanile Drive
San Diego, CA 92182-8140
Phn: (619) 594-5170
Fax: (619) 594-4998
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:22:02 +0100
From: Andrew Maunder <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Victorian costume
Dear all
I have four queries on mid-Victorian costume and accessories circa 1860. I
was hoping that someone on the List could enlighten me on what they refer
to.
All 4 references are from Loves Conflict (1865).
The first (rather coy) one describes one female character looking very fine
in `her riding habit and unmentionables'. Am not sure whether the
unmentionables are undergarments of some sort (an unusual reference in a
Victorian novel), or some kind of trousers (and therefore somewhat risque
in a topical kind of way).
The second refers to the hero being dressed in evening dress in the height
of fashion'. Does anyone know what this would have been in the late 50s,
early 60s?
The third is a question about footwarmers, taken on train journeys. How did
these work?
The fourth is a question relating a London jewellers shop called Howell and
James. I am assuming it is fictional and it doesnt appear in any of the
nineteenth century directories or guides to London I've looked in. But
maybe someone knows differently...
Any answers very gratefully received
Andrew
********************************************************
Dr Andrew Maunder
Subject Leader for Literature
University of Hertfordshire
Faculty of Humanities and Education
de Havilland Campus
Hatfield
AL10 9AB
Tel: +44 (0)1707 285641
Email: [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:59:06 -0400
From: Meegan Kennedy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: the ghost of Hume
While browsing the web, I came across the following quotation from W.
E. Henley on the Victorian Web:
"Epigrams are at best half-truths that look like whole ones. Here is
a handful about George Eliot. It has been said of her books ... that
'they seem to have been dictated to a plain woman of genius by the
ghost of David Hume.' "
[W. E. Henley, Views and Reviews: Essays in Appreciation. New York:
Charles Scribner's Sons: 1890. 130-32. See
http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/victorian/authors/henley/eliot.html ]
I cannot check Henley's text in my school's library until next week,
and it seems likely that the Victorian Web would have included notes
if he had given any. Does anyone know where the original of this
statement might have appeared?
Best,
Meegan Kennedy
--
***************************************************************************
***** Meegan Kennedy
Program in History and Literature
Harvard University
Barker Center 122
12 Quincy Street
Barker Ctr Mail Area H0850
Cambridge, MA 02138
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:06:03 +0200
From: Timothy Mason <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "Blue book" readings for class
You might want to look at 'Social Policy 1830-1914 ; Individualism,
collectivism and the origins of the Welfare State' edited by Eric Evans,
in the 'Birth of Modern Britain Series', RKP, which is still available
from Amazon.com, although published in 1978. In the same series, B.I.
Coleman's 'The Idea of the City in Nineteenth Century Britain' also has
much that covers your area of interest.
Best wishes
Timothy Mason
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:47:07 +0100
From: Lee Jackson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian costume - Howell & James
Howell and James did exist:-
http://home.xtra.co.nz/hosts/nouveaudecor/LewisDay.htm
There is a Howell & Co. jewellers at 5 Regent Street in Tallis's 1830-40
street views and 5-9 Regent Street in 1848 edition, which is probably the
same one?
regards,
Lee
www.victorianlondon.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 06:09:46 +0800
From: =?big5?q?kueiying?= <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian costume
Hi,
one of the main features of female dress in 1860s
should be the wide, long skirt with the 'cage
crinoline', invented in 1856 to support the vast
skirt. The puff sleeves (longer and tighter at the
wrist than before) and double skirts were also
fashionable in early 1860s. A book worth consulting
is by Cunnington, C Willett &Phillis. 'Handbook of
English Costume in the Nineteenth Century' (1959),
which contains detailed descriptions and
illustrations.
Kuei-ying Huang
PhD in Art History
University of Essex
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 21:11:56 -0700
From: "Peter H. Wood" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian costume
Andrew Maunder wrote:
> The third is a question about footwarmers, taken on train journeys. How
> did these work?
According to Fletcher & Taylor's "Railways: The Pioneer Years" (Studio
Press (1990), these originally consisted of long flat containers filled with
hot water which were slid under the seats in each compartment. At main
stations these were reheated by immersion in a vat of boiling water or
passing through a steam-jet. The Continental railway systems tried
variations on this scheme, using boxes filled with hot sand, sodium acetate
which maintains a temperature of 55 degrees Celsius for several hours, or
even a red-hot iron bar in a well-insulated sheath.
In countries with an extreme climate, stoves and hot-air circulating
systems in each carriage were tried, but the risk of fires following
accidents was considerable.
From 1900 onwards steam-heated radiators and pipes were fitted
throughout a train, drawing their heat from the locomotive, but this had
circulatory problems, with the furthest-away carriages being the coldest.
Elecrical-powered systems came in after 1910.
In general, heating railway passenger trains was one of the major
problems of the 19th century; as might be expected, the comfort of
passengers was closely linked to the class they travelled in.
Peter Wood
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 00:06:04 -0400
From: "Eileen M. Curran" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Victorian costume - Howell & James
A Sewell & Cross young man,
A Howell & James young man,
A pushing young particle--'What's the next article?'--
Waterloo-House young man!
Patience, act 2
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 19 Aug 2003 to 20 Aug 2003 (#2003-22)
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