Dear all,
with all due respect for everyone's beliefs, sensibilities and vulnerabilities, and Laurence's enduring curiosity, I think we have really taken a button, and sewn a vest to it. My original comment - tongue firmly up cheek - that:
I was hauled over the coals a few years ago by a Jewish member on the list who I think complained of my lack of sensitivity in wishing none Christians a happy Christmas
may well have been the button.
I spent my entire Christmas day not worrying about any of this. Mainly sat on my verandah, had my wife and daughter over for a very pleasant lunch, ate and drank moderately and looked through the windscreen of life at the way ahead.
I hope you too had as good a Christmas, religeous or otherwise. I am an atheist incidentally for a couple of very defendable reasons, but love playing Handels Messiah and Bach's Christmas Oratoria at this time. The music is wonderfully moving.
rgds John
(in sunny - and slightly wet - Yeppon)
----- Original Message -----
From: Laurence Bathurst <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Continuation of religion/disability discussion
> Hello Bertha
>
> Do you or would you include gay men, lesbians, bi-sexuals or transgender
> people at your table too? I mean without feeling the need to pray for their
> sins?
>
> Disclaimer: - this is not an acusation. I am genuinely interested in whether
> such a thing exists.
>
>
>
>
> Best regards
>
> Laurence Bathurst
> School of Occupation and Leisure Sciences
> Faculty of Health Sciences
> University of Sydney
>
> PO Box 170
> Lidcombe NSW 1825
> Australia
>
> Ph: 61 2 9351 9509
> Fax: 61 2 9351 9509
> Email: [log in to unmask]
>
> See School Website www.ot.cchs.usyd.edu.au
>
> Home Ph: 61 2 9818 2050
> Mobile Ph: 0407 069 441
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bertha Mo" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 9:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Continuation of religion/disability discussion
>
>
> | I agree with you Timothy...for those who are theologically challenged,
> Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet just like Mohammed.
> | Christmas is the birthday of Jesus Christ and it is only our consumer
> driven society that sees it as just a day of shopping. The challenge for
> people of good will at Christmas and all other holidays which are family
> focused(I am Chinese American so I include Chinese New Year's in this
> category) is how to include others at the table...
> | I belong to a very progressive United Church (of Canada) in Ottawa...My
> participation in this wonderful church where no one is excluded, everyone is
> welcome at the communion table (children, Muslims, Hindus etc) is to reflect
> back on my fieldwork in a traditional Chinese village in Malaysia where my
> neighbor, an elderly woman spent almost every Chinese New Year's Eve and Day
> alone...since it was the custom for only family to be at the table. As an
> outsider, I was granted "fictive kin" status by my village family...It is
> only today, over two decades after that fieldwork that I reflect upon the
> exclusivity of family in most cultures...And so let us truely ponder the
> meaning of the "human family" at Christmas and on other holidays and may our
> actions welcome "others" to our door and table...
> | Bertie Mo, Ph.D., MPH
> | Medical Anthropologist
> | "Lillie,Timothy H" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:I am reminded of Ebenezer
> Scrooge, for some reason.
> |
> | Timothy Lillie, PhD
> | Dept. of Curricular & Instructional Studies
> | The University of Akron
> | Akron OH 44325-4205
> | 330-972-6746 (Voice)
> | 330-972-5209 (Fax)
> |
> | > -----Original Message-----
> | > From: Simon Stevens [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> | > Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 5:08 PM
> | > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > Subject: Re: Continuation of religion/disability discussion
> | >
> | >
> | > What is so Happy about Christmas? Christmas was about families and for
> | > me, the reality is family just isn't what it used to be and
> | > for disabled
> | > people, their familities are often an cause of stress and upset as for
> | > those who are both with impairment, it is a cause for disharmony.
> | > Therefore, Christmas can be a lonely and stressful affair.
> | >
> | > I prefer to say 'Best wishes for the New Year' and avoid
> | > Christmas since
> | > I believe it is worth celebrating.
> | >
> | > Also, it is of Christmas as a Christian festival, when Bush finally
> | > conned the world Iraq is actually doing something wrong (funded by the
> | > CIA ofcourse), and starts World War 3 - The Holy One, and bombs every
> | > muslim country, I think the meaning of Christmas will be put back as a
> | > symbol of Christian/Western victory of freedom (without human rights)
> | > and something I will personally feel ashamed off as an
> | > athesis. I think
> | > the Red Cross has been right is forecasting how sensitive
> | > Christmas will
> | > be during the next world war.
> | >
> | > Many Thanks, Simon
> | >
> | > --
> | >
> | > Simon Stevens
> | > Managing Director, Enable Enterprises
> | > [log in to unmask]
> | >
> | > NEED INSTANT ADVICE?
> | > CALL 247 INSTANT ON 090 904 80000 (? PER MINUTE)
> | >
> | > PO Box 1974, COVENTRY, CV3 1YF
> | > Tel: +44(0)24 7644 8130 (Sales 0800 358 8484)
> | > Fax: +44(0)870 133 2447
> | > IM: enableenterprises (Yahoo/AOL) simonenable (MSN) 155158793 (ICQ)
> | >
> | >
> | > Personal site: www.simonstevens.com
> | > Company shop: www.enableenterprises.com
> | > Free Newsletter: www.contactexpress.biz
> | >
> | > Join our FREE newsletter, send blank email to [log in to unmask]
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > -----Original Message-----
> | > From: The Disability-Research Discussion List
> | > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of homan
> | > Sent: 23 December 2002 21:55
> | > To: [log in to unmask]
> | > Subject: Re: Continuation of religion/disability discussion
> | >
> | > Determined to have the last word! The pope says that Christmas has now
> | > become a commercial festival, so will "happy shopping" or "I wish you
> | > receive all the presents you hoped for", or may be 'I hope that, after
> | > Christmas, you will be able to exchange all the useless and hideous
> | > presents
> | > you receive."
> | >
> | > Have a wonderful time!
> | >
> | > rgds John
> | >
> | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > From: Lillie,Timothy H
> | > To:
> | > Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 1:27 AM
> | > Subject: Re: Continuation of religion/disability discussion
> | >
> | >
> | > > >>>
> | > > (I was hauled over the coals a few years ago by a Jewish
> | > member on the
> | > > list who I think complained of my lack of sensitivity in
> | > wishing none
> | > > Christians a happy Christmas
> | > > >>>
> | > >
> | > > There's an easy answer. Remember non-Christian holidays
> | > (and remember
> | > > some people have no religion) or simply say
> | > >
> | > >
> | > I really like this. For the past year or two I have
> | > been making
> | > a
> | > point of saying "Happy New Year" to Jewish friends when that time
> | > occurs.
> | > They are proud of being Jewish and I don't say to them "Happy
> | > Holy Days"
> | > to
> | > cover all the Holy Days that occur right about the same time (Rosh
> | > Hashannah, Yom Kippur, etc.).
> | >
> | > What is (after all) wrong with wishing Christians a Merry
> | > Christmas
> | > or Jews a Happy Hannukah and atheists nothing. After all, the
> | > reason for
> | > the
> | > greetings is religious, in the end, not secular.
> | >
> | > Tim Lillie
> | >
> | > >
> | >
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