>Adrian Fogarty :-
>Yes, although when FFAEM began many examiners were finding their feet and
still are! It wouldn't be too difficult >expanding the clinical slant of our
exam to, say, 50% and reducing the EBM bit to 25%. I would start by dropping
>one of the CTRs, it's pointless doing more than one! I would not object to
keeping 25% management at the moment. >There are many new trainees coming
through now, like yourself and Simon, who could "pump-prime" a more clinical
>exam in the future (not forgetting some of us older guys who can still turn
a hand in resus every now and then!).


At risk of discussing an exam I have not taken, with knowledge that there
are examiners on the list I agree with the ideas. 2500 words is quite
limited to do an in depth review, especially as you are encouraged, and
therefore use  many words by detailing search strategies and development of
3 part questions etc. (most journals will take up to 4000-5000 words for a
review article - perhaps we should reflect that so that people may also have
the opportunity to see their work published). With due regard to the
examiners who would have to read the damn thing one CTR (but with a greater
word count and depth) would be my choice. I believe that this is being
seriously considered by the great and the good as a future modification to
the exam.

One criticism of the whole speciality, never mind the exam, is that we don't
have unique clinical skills. Raising the profile at the exit exam may help.
Most people going into the exam are not really worried about the clinical
part of the exam (most people state that the management viva is the aspect
that is most concerning), perhaps they should be. It may be that the 25%
allocation of marks reflects the view that SpR training (plus RITA and
trainer assessment) pretty much guarantees a high level clinical
competance - but does it?

Simon

NB. On the personal note a small child is a very poor revision aid!

Simon Carley
SpR in Emergency Medicine
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Evidence based emergency medicine
http://www.bestbets.org
----- Original Message -----
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: emergency exams


> >  from:    Cliff Reid
> >  subject: Re: emergency exams
>
> > Some form of ongoing assessment - more
> > objective and testing than RITA - would in my opinion be fairer than the
> > all-or-nothing/heaven-hell approach.
>
> I agree, RITA is rather pathetic, but hence the need for a robust and
independent exam outside of this. I wouldn't want to lose our "exit exam"
approach, but I agree it could be modified.
>
>  > Bear in mind my FFAEM was October 1999. The clinical part may well be
> > tougher now, but it was embarassingly easy then.
> > Speaking to the examiners after, it's clear they view the UK system with
> > considerable bemusement.
>
> This does concern me Cliff; our exam's obsession with EBM to the extent
that it absorbs 50% of the exam, with another 25% given to management. Our
specialty is in danger of producing a lot of academics who spend their times
in offices or meetings. The latter are necessary for some of us some of the
time, but we urgently need to nurture and develop more clinically based
trainees for the future of our specialty.
>
> > Are we concerned the trainers aren't competent to produce sufficiently
> > trained candidates? If so, that's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
> Yes, although when FFAEM began many examiners were finding their feet and
still are! It wouldn't be too difficult expanding the clinical slant of our
exam to, say, 50% and reducing the EBM bit to 25%. I would start by dropping
one of the CTRs, it's pointless doing more than one! I would not object to
keeping 25% management at the moment. There are many new trainees coming
through now, like yourself and Simon, who could "pump-prime" a more clinical
exam in the future (not forgetting some of us older guys who can still turn
a hand in resus every now and then!).
>
> > >Sorry, that was meant to go to Cliff only.
>
> That's OK Simon, there's nothing wrong with indulging the rest of the List
with personal stuff from time to time. It makes for a refreshing change from
the joys of troponins etc!
>
> Adrian
>