JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives


FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives


FILM-PHILOSOPHY@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Home

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Home

FILM-PHILOSOPHY  2002

FILM-PHILOSOPHY 2002

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Dardennes' realism

From:

Pascal Houba <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Film-Philosophy Salon <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:16:27 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

Ross

Ross Macleay wrote:

>Pascal
>
>I was very interested in your comments ( and later Daniels) on style. I
>would be very interested in  the article on Pasolini and the Dardennes.
>
I'll send it to your private address.

>
>As I understand it (from Deleuze) Pasolini thought that cinema in its
>fullest sense was a medium  of free indirect discourse. I would say this of
>all narrative communication and especially narrative art. I would say it of
>communication generally because I think the way humans work is that a
>subject has to shift between different points of view and different takes on
>the self and other just to make propositional and narrative communication
>possible. To use Daniels term, I think communicative subjectivity has to be
>(quasi, imperfectly, cunningly, and at times self-deludingly)
>trans-subjective. I would even say that this kind of communicative thinking
>is characteristic of linguistic and film thinking and actually very human.
>
Indeed, Pasolini see free indirect discourse is theoretically at work in 
all art forms and so in all films. But practically, only some film 
exploit this feature in its fullest potential. This is a distinction 
that we can find already in Bakhtin which is one major influence for 
Pasolini's concept of free indirect discourse. Bakhtin distinguishes 
between monologual and polyphonic works, giving Tolstoï and Dostoïevski 
as examples of each type. This distinction is also found in Pasolini 
literary criticism where he opposes the writings of Petrarch and Dante. 
He also makes a comment about "bourgeois" authors who reduce all 
experiences to their point of view. This means that free indirect style 
has a very political meaning for Pasolini (this was also important for 
Bakhtin but he could not so much develop this in the stalinist context).
I think Bakhtin himself used the word trans-linguistic to describe his 
approach. I should check this however.

>Like cinema, language and society, humans are, as it were, transhuman.
>  
>
As for transhumanity, this is something very important that Pasolini 
already finds in Dante's Paradise and gives as a title to a collection 
of his poems: "Transumanar e organizzar (1971)" (Transhumanize and 
organize).

>When it comes to narrative art I think that free indirect style in film or
>prose is a case of recognising a fact about narrative and using it to
>develop a norm. A case of making a virtue of necessity.
>  
>
The purpose of free indirect style is indeed to develop a "norm". 
However, this is what Pasolini call "style" to distinguish between oral 
and written language where grammar function as a norm; and cinema, "the 
language of Reality", where there cannot be a grammar but only stylistic 
conventions. This distinction is important because free indirect style 
is used by Pasolini as a counter-practice that denounces normalization 
in society. Then, free indirect style is used as a means to show at once 
the "norm" and what can resists it.

>I think film is still discovering what the term 'free indirect style' means
>for it, and watching the Dardennes work with this in mind will give me
>something to think about. I suppose if free indirect style is the proper
>character of film and language in their fullest development we should be
>able to watch any film with this in mind, and see its style as a matter of
>modulations, restrictions and developments of the available visual and audio
>discursive resources.
>  
>
>(...)
>As for Cassavetes, if his cinematic style is direct, I think we should
>recognize that direct style in its fullest sense is mimetic, and I think
>that it is the deeply mimetic character of linguistic and cinematic
>communication that makes free indirect style the fullest expression of
>narrative discourse anyway.
>  
>
This is why Pasolini uses the term "divine mimesis" to describe his 
particular way to perceive things and film them.

>These thoughts may be a bit garbled, and jargon ridden and I have made
>vague, overstated claims about language and film that really demand careful
>argument. So enough.
>
>Ross
>
Regards,
Pascal

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager