Ken

In response to your comment "Incidentally the systems recently under trial did not seem to talk to each other
very well, standards or no standards." I think that if you read the reports from the FE/MLE interoperability project, most went very well indeed. I think that the only problems where with how implementation should occur. Batch or Real-Time. Most elected for the Batch mode (which in my opinion is a mistake as that does not prove inter-operability but just being able to import and export data). Many, in particular the UK VLE offerings did work as planned and the exercise was a useful one from both the colleges having a full understanding of all the issues (including the non-technical ones around change management) and vendors having a better understanding of each others systems.

As to imposing standards, this surely is a mater for those who are paying for the services. It is uncommon for anyone to impose any technical standards unless for a valid reason, which in the main is "Value for Money" or "Security".

This is evident in the world of Multimedia. MPG is a standard, but not everyone uses it, it is a matter of choice.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 02 May 2002 19:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Standards-Compliance-Students


For Nigel

The argumentI was addressing was whether standards were or were not a good
thing per se.

However, I can apply this to the VLE argument. If the the need to conform to
the particular communication standard means that an otherwise useful feature
has to be left out of your VLE then the standard has stifled creativity.  In
the same way that the inclusivity rules that we are trying to introduce is
stifling some of the creativity of programmers who would like to add useful
features to their learning materials but cannot make them acceptable to all
people with or without physical or mental impairment.

With regard to the "thinking outside of the box", if you are to be able to
dream and be able to realise those dreams you need as few constraints as
possible.  In other words you need not to be tied to a set of standards.

Incidentally the systems recently under trial did not seem to talk to eachother
very well, standards or no standards.   So I am told, most achieved their
levels of interoperability by using an intermediary program, something akin to
a router for software.

I hope this answers your question.  If you want to know where I stand it is
simply that standards should not be so tight as to be restrictive and should
not be imposed too early in the development of a system.

Quoting Nigel PEET <[log in to unmask]>:

> "On the other hand they also stifle creativity and seriously inhibit
> thinking "outside of the box"."
>
> I'm at a loss to see how this can possibly happen simply because we want
> the
> underlying (communication) technologies to talk to each other. Could
> Ken
> help me out with this?
>
> Steve: I would prefer standards issues to be aired here. They are an
> integral part of the VLE debate whether you are a designer or an
> implementer.
>
> Nigel Peet
> Director of ICT
> South Cheshire College
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Smith [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 02 May 2002 09:04
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Standards-Compliance-Students
>
>
> I feel that standards are a double edged sword.  Yes they do allow
> people
> toto work towards a common goal and share their experiences much more
> easily.  This is extremely important if we are to make content available
> as
> quickly as possible.  On the other hand they also stifle creativity
> and
> seriously inhibit thinking "outside of the box".  Probably the biggest
> mistake is to try to enforce a standard before the pace of development
> has
> levelled off.  Just think where we would be if the old Microsoft MSX
> standard had been successful, still using z80 processors.
>
> Perhaps we should be looking at looser standards. Ones that allow a
> large
> amount of leeway within a set framework.  Take RS232c a very loose
> standard
> protocol for serial transmission.  Invented for the old Teletype
> machines in
> the 1950s and still being used (although it is now dying out) on all our
> PCs
> It survived this long by not being too restrictive.
>
> Quoting Steve Molyneux <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > I must disagree. Standards are extremely important. Especially if we
> > "the tax payer" are to get value for public funds spent on content
> and
> > systems. This is exactly why interoperability is paramount. I feel
> > there are a number of issues with equal validity. These include
> > Pedagogy, Interoperability, Access (addressing disability) and
> > multi-channel support.
> >
> > Maybe if colleagues feel it is a problem we should request a
> separate
> > list managed by CETIS on the standards issue as that is exactly
> their
> > domain.
> >
> > As one who is heavily involved in advising Government, Industry and
> > Customers of learning technologies I would welcome it.
> >
> > What do colleagues think?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andy Black [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: 01 May 2002 09:54
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Standards-Compliance-Students
> >
> >
> > Dear List
> > I feel that our 'VLE' list is in danger of becoming the official
> > 'Standards and Compliance' debate list. Surely, (apologies for
> > repeating myself) at the end of the day, the only thing that really
> > matters is whether or not students and teachers are using ICT to
> > enhance their teaching and learning?
> >
> > Again I have to agree that 'it would be nice'
> > to "Standardise" VLEs and tell vendors what to do when developing
> > their products. However, I and many of you, live in the real
> (Virtual)
> > world where commercialism rules and evolution of products is market
> > driven. Instead of getting wrapped up in our own self inflicted
> > 'issues' with compliance and standardisation, we should really be
> > encouraging those colleagues who have had minimal exposure
> > to these technologies, to have a go!
> >
> > Who are we anyway to impose 'standards' and
> > demand 'compliance' when we are not the ONLY consumers of VLEs? Or
> are
> > we once again, attempting to justify our own jobs whilst neglecting
> > the 'real' end users - the students...
> >
> > Member of the Content Council and registered as an e- learning
> > consultant. www.contentcouncil.co.uk
> >
> > Get your own zoom email - click here - http://www.zoom.co.uk/
> >
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>
>
> Ken Smith
> I.L.T. Specialist
> JISC RSC - SE
> Office 01189 675451
> Mobile: 07814023986
>
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>



Ken Smith
I.L.T. Specialist
JISC RSC - SE
Office 01189 675451
Mobile: 07814023986

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***************** List information: *****************
Remember - replies go by default to the entire list.
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