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POETRYETC  2002

POETRYETC 2002

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Subject:

Re: A Chide's Alphabet

From:

Anny Ballardini <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:58:56 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (141 lines)

hi dave, i enjoyed that Keats story which gave me the illusion of seeing a
dave in his childhood, from the little that i know of you, and sure, the
Brummie accent is absolutely the "best" (opps) the most articulate,
comprehensible, distinctly paused in its main cadences and superbly drawn in
the acoustic vaults of the hearers... :-)
[no idea of how it is]
- and sure i am with Alison Croggon in the design of new maps
care anny

From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>


> Alison wrote:
>
> >Sometimes - not always - it strikes me that the point might be, like
> Dostoevsky's underground man with toothache, to distil a perverse and
> malicious pleasure from groaning.  Poets can be especially good at
> this.  One can draw one map, and then another map, changing points of
> reference all the time.  The maps illustrate all sorts of
> unsatisfactory landscapes and everyone can feel satisfyingly freer to
> groan.<
>
>
> I like that, Alison, I like it a lot. Particularly the underground man
> +with+ toothache! It made me smile at 5 a.m. on an insomniac night so
there
> definitely has to be something going for it. The Joys of Groaning are
> undeniable, a morose delectation if there ever were. The tremendous
freedom
> of poetry is undeniable there in potential, trouble is with freedom that
you
> have to have points to run to, if you suddenly get that freedom and
discover
> to your horror there is nowhere in direct connection to go to, because all
> roads are blocked about where you live, it's a shock. It can make it even
> more plangent to realise that that freedom is realisable in distant,
> intermittent sometimes, links.
>
> I think I might have mentioned before my horror at hearing a tale told
about
> one the joint editors of the 'biggest' magazine in this area, she was
> talking to someone whom she picked up on for having a faint Notts accent,
> she went on to say, in conclusion, that in her opinion no-one with a
> Birmingham accent should ever be published anywhere. As I'm the only East
> Midlands poet with a Brummie accent and something of a name and she's met
me
> the reference was probably to me. The magazine in question is
substantially
> backed by EMA, even though their declared policy is that they don't
support
> magazines.
>
> She lives in a very nice village.
>
> Now all this stuff is the fuel of good paranoia as well as happy grousing,
> but, but ....
>
>
> Anyhow, I hope people liked the Keats ditty, and I hope you enjoy you cup
of
> tea, Al.
>
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Bircumshaw
>
> Leicester, England
>
> Home Page
>
> A Chide's Alphabet
>
> Painting Without Numbers
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alison Croggon" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 5:40 AM
> Subject: Re: A Chide's Alphabet
>
>
> At 1:34 AM +0000 12/30/02, david.bircumshaw wrote:
> >I'm certainly not trying to belittle what SALT
> >does, nor would I descry those small presses, although their position is
> >'marginal', rather than 'tangential' (!).
>
> !!   Descrying those small presses might indeed be an interesting
> idea...  Well.  Let's face it: all poetry is culturally marginal.  I
> think that is its tremendous freedom.   Whether poets want to
> acknowledge that freedom (it is I know well a difficult pleasure),
> let alone pick it up and run with it is another question.
>
> At 1:34 AM +0000 12/30/02, david.bircumshaw wrote:
> >  all I was trying to talk about was the
> >situation in England as it seems from the 'inside', just as Jon I think
was
> >saying how it is in the US.
>
> The same sort of rough diagram can be drawn for Australia.  I spent
> an annoyed afternoon arguing against one in Quadrant not long ago.  I
> wonder, though, and increasingly, what the point is?  This as an
> inveterate complainer about my own culture...
>
> Sometimes - not always - it strikes me that the point might be, like
> Dostoevsky's undergound man with toothache, to distil a perverse and
> malicious pleasure from groaning.  Poets can be especially good at
> this.  One can draw one map, and then another map, changing points of
> reference all the time.  The maps illustrate all sorts of
> unsatisfactory landscapes and everyone can feel satisfyingly freer to
> groan.
>
> But why draw a diagram that takes all its points of reference and
> notions of significance from the very aspects of the culture that
> offend you?  Why not draw another map with other significances?  In
> such a map, small presses might loom disconcertingly large and the
> defining landmarks might be poems themselves rather than, say,
> reviews.  Reviews might be glittering connective tissue rather than
> strange clots.  There might be no centre at all.  Etc.  But I am
> suddenly feeling all postmodern.  I'll go have a cup of tea and calm
> down.
>
> Best
>
> A
> --
>
>
>
> Alison Croggon
> Home page
> http://www.users.bigpond.com/acroggon/
>
> Masthead Online
> http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/
>

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