This is all very sad. Some of Frederick's remarks have been ill-judged, one
could take particular exception at describing the innocent people who were
crushed to death at Hillsborough through police incompetence as 'yobs' but
at the same time I CAN understand why some US Americans might feel hurt at
criticism of politics in relation to the emotional trauma of the 911 events.
I include in that remarks by me.
Perhaps one could return to the base point, that the criticism is of public
rhetoric, with all the power that has to do damage. I'd point again to
Mark's beautiful and humane post as a marker for how to explore these
issues, and avoiding judgementalism in so doing.
A Chide's Alphabet
Painting Without Numbers
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Upton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2002 1:11 AM
This is tiresome,Henry. You have missed the point, but I think you intended
None of what I said concerned *your conspiracy theories, and you are having
an argument with yourself, a mythologising process where you will always win
in your own eyes.
I commented upon a truly offensive remark, which had been made
gratuitously: "psychotic scum thugs". And you would have us believe you
interpret my offense at *that remark as being indicative of support of the
That's illogical and perverse, as was the earlier abuse of the language of
psychiatry in using an often precise term as an insult; *and as is your
coining of your own
terminology "bile-mentality", which can of course mean whatever you claim it
Psychiatry is often abused in defence of corrupt politics. How easy to
dismiss those you oppose as mad. If done in a "reasonable" tone it masks the
illogicality of the argument being smuggled in unexamined
| But neither of these explains or justifies clandestine networks of
| bent on massacring the civilian populations of their supposed enemies.
is offensive, too, in its suggestion that I would seek to justify a
massacre. How dare you say such a thing.
I would not bother to distinguish between clandestine networks and
networks that can be heard passing a hundred miles away; they're all
But *you do not distinguish between explanation and justification of events.
If you did make that distinction you might then find it harder to make the
simplistic charge of anti-American bile. I take offence at that, too, Henry;
in so far as it has any meaning, it is a false charge, kin to a widespread
slander of your own citizens which shamed your country 50 years ago.
If you have no argument, ok; but don't distort and insult