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POETRYETC Home

POETRYETC  2002

POETRYETC 2002

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Subject:

Re: Kathleen Jamie

From:

Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 2 Apr 2002 19:27:04 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (106 lines)

Sorry if my tone caught you sideways, dave.

I've been thinking a little about this, via a backchannel query from Andrew
Duncan over Veronica Forrest-Thomson.

I think my background may be a little specialised -- the core of the Glasgow
Language Wars broke out about 1967.  There were two key texts -- Tom
Leonard's _Six Glasgow Poems_ (well, specifically, "The Good Thief") and
Stephen Mulrine's "The Coming of the Wee Malkies".

There's still a debate about which came first (my memories have it that
Tom's was the earlier text) but little argument that the problem was
relations with Kailyard.  Steve's Wee Malkies, whether or not it came first,
was both Kailyard and sentimental.  Which was one reason why _Glasgow
Beasts_ never had much influence.

But my problem -- life for me began in 1965.  There were some around who
were a little earlier:  around Gilmorehill, Colin Kirkwood and Steve
Mulrine, and in Edinburgh Bob Tait and David Black.  But history didn't seem
to exist -- I came on V F-T later.  (Actually, Douglas Clark may be better
on me in this, as my impression is he was five years before me on The Hill.
And at that point, five years was a long time.)

But when I was there, there were at least two things -- when I was there, I
+didn't+ have a good ear -- Tom and Jim Kelman were both +much+ better than
me.  Another was that the Language Wars were fought out in poetry --
Alastair Gray was writing _Lanark_ across this time, but _Lanark_ is pretty
light on language.  As was most of Jim Kelman's prose.  The exception was
"Nice Tae Be Nice", and +that+ (like _The Six Glasgow Poems_) smashed up
against the problem of literal censorship.

To my mind, the novelists never really cracked the language problem before
_Trainspotting_.  Which was a lot later, and Edinburgh.

And then I left.  So I don't have that much pertinent to say about Ms Flett.

As to The Broons crack -- this wasn't entirely gratuitous.  Both Oor Wullie
and The Broons were weekly serials in _The Sunday Post_, but there was a
problem with them -- not the way we spoke.  There was a simple answer to
this -- it was the way they spoke in Dundee.  Both were franchised by the
Thomson Group, who were (still are?) based in Dundee.

Simple if you think about it.

Back to lurking.

Cheers,

Robin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Kathleen Jamie


> Well, Mr Hamilton, unless you're an apparition, I'd say you are definitely
> +here+. Nobody, I think, was asking for involvement, I just put a call out
> on your ear, that's all, I don't know what's silly about that.
>
> Hi-jinks is one thing, and needed at times, but the joking doesn't mean
I'm
> not in earnest.
>
> Best
>
> Dave
>
>
> David Bircumshaw
>
> Leicester, England
>
> Home Page
>
> A Chide's Alphabet
>
> Painting Without Numbers
>
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 12:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Kathleen Jamie
>
>
> > we'd better leave this to Robin Hamilton (?)
>
> I'm not here.  I'm not involved.
>
> Try The Broons.
>
> Or IHF's _Glasgow Beasts_
>
> This is +so+ silly --
>
> There +was+ a time when there was blood on the tracks.
>
> Look, this was a LONG time ago.
>
> Nite,
>
> R/bn

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