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----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and
poetics" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Kathleen Jamie
> Sorry if my tone caught you sideways, dave.
> I've been thinking a little about this, via a backchannel query from
> Duncan over Veronica Forrest-Thomson.
> I think my background may be a little specialised -- the core of the
> Language Wars broke out about 1967. There were two key texts -- Tom
> Leonard's _Six Glasgow Poems_ (well, specifically, "The Good Thief") and
> Stephen Mulrine's "The Coming of the Wee Malkies".
> There's still a debate about which came first (my memories have it that
> Tom's was the earlier text) but little argument that the problem was
> relations with Kailyard. Steve's Wee Malkies, whether or not it came
> was both Kailyard and sentimental. Which was one reason why _Glasgow
> Beasts_ never had much influence.
> But my problem -- life for me began in 1965. There were some around who
> were a little earlier: around Gilmorehill, Colin Kirkwood and Steve
> Mulrine, and in Edinburgh Bob Tait and David Black. But history didn't
> to exist -- I came on V F-T later. (Actually, Douglas Clark may be better
> on me in this, as my impression is he was five years before me on The
> And at that point, five years was a long time.)
> But when I was there, there were at least two things -- when I was there,
> +didn't+ have a good ear -- Tom and Jim Kelman were both +much+ better
> me. Another was that the Language Wars were fought out in poetry --
> Alastair Gray was writing _Lanark_ across this time, but _Lanark_ is
> light on language. As was most of Jim Kelman's prose. The exception was
> "Nice Tae Be Nice", and +that+ (like _The Six Glasgow Poems_) smashed up
> against the problem of literal censorship.
> To my mind, the novelists never really cracked the language problem before
> _Trainspotting_. Which was a lot later, and Edinburgh.
> And then I left. So I don't have that much pertinent to say about Ms
> As to The Broons crack -- this wasn't entirely gratuitous. Both Oor
> and The Broons were weekly serials in _The Sunday Post_, but there was a
> problem with them -- not the way we spoke. There was a simple answer to
> this -- it was the way they spoke in Dundee. Both were franchised by the
> Thomson Group, who were (still are?) based in Dundee.
> Simple if you think about it.
> Back to lurking.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 3:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Kathleen Jamie
> > Well, Mr Hamilton, unless you're an apparition, I'd say you are
> > +here+. Nobody, I think, was asking for involvement, I just put a call
> > on your ear, that's all, I don't know what's silly about that.
> > Hi-jinks is one thing, and needed at times, but the joking doesn't mean
> > not in earnest.
> > Best
> > Dave
> > David Bircumshaw
> > Leicester, England
> > Home Page
> > A Chide's Alphabet
> > Painting Without Numbers
> > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robin Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 12:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: Kathleen Jamie
> > > we'd better leave this to Robin Hamilton (?)
> > I'm not here. I'm not involved.
> > Try The Broons.
> > Or IHF's _Glasgow Beasts_
> > This is +so+ silly --
> > There +was+ a time when there was blood on the tracks.
> > Look, this was a LONG time ago.
> > Nite,
> > R/bn