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Date: 30 May 2002 00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of VICTORIA digests <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 28 May 2002 to 29 May 2002 (#2002-149)
There are 24 messages totalling 732 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. London Guide (8)
2. "dilate" in 1831 - Lesley Hall; Beth Sutton-Ramspeck
3. Lie back..P.S...
4. Calendar of Conferences
5. Serials in Australian Periodicals
6. Turkish baths in C19 fiction (2)
7. Apologies
8. Buried Alive
9. Agents (3)
10. Buried Alive, with telephone or whatever
11. Laboring Classes - Celebrations
12. Gaslight Mystery
13. Appropriate launch venues for The Crimson Petal And The White
14. Researching costs, 1880s
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:07:10 +0100
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: London Guide
May I make one caveat for people intending to walk around looking for old
addresses in London? From the 1850s house numbers in London were changed
street by street. The problem was that when a street was finished, for
example Harley Street, it was numbered up one side 1,2,3,4, and down the
other 5,6,7,8. Then London expanded, and if you wanted to extend Harley
Street you had no logical numbers to use for the new houses. So you had to
call it Upper Harley Street and start numbering again. That caused
confusion. Especially when you extended it a second or third time.
Around the middle of the century some genius worked out that if you numbered
odds on one side and evens on the other you could extend a street infinitely
without changing the numbering. So one by one over the next 60 or 70 years
most streets in London were renumbered. Harley Street was one. But
neighbouring Wimpole Street was not and its numbers still go up one side and
down the other. Generally if numbers are continuous ie not separated into
odds and evens, the street is more likely to retain its original Victorian
or pre-Victorian numbering.
Another problem was that many streets had similar names so to ease the
confusion as London expanded street names were also changed. For example,
what is now Marylebone Road was called New Road until 1857. So finding a
street and a house number where someone lived is no guarantee that it is the
actual building - even if it still exists. For example, Wilkie Collins lived
at 12 Harley Street from 1860 to 1864. He finished writing The Woman in
White there and so for Wilkie fans (or scholars) it is a major building. A
visitor to Harley Street will find a fine late 18C No.12 looking very
handsome. But it is not the house Wilkie lived in. When he lived there, the
present No.12 was called No.6 Harley Street. Two years after he left, the
house he lived in as No.12 was renumbered 26. It was demolished in the 1960s
and is now a medical centre.
One house actually changed address while he lived there - or at least while
his mother lived there and he used it as an accommodation address on his
letters. The first time he used the new address, he got it wrong. And if you
look for the house he was born in you will find its address changed twice
since that day in 1824. Sadly it too has been demolished.
There is a reference book which lists all these changes but I have only ever
seen one copy - in the London Metropolitan Archive. They also hold the
contemporary documents including the maps which were used when the changes
were made. Without going back to those sources it is impossible to be sure
that 7 Acacia Avenue is the actual house that Joe Bloggs of 7 Acacia Avenue
lived in.
Paul
Paul Lewis
web www.paullewis.co.uk
tel 07836 217311
-----Original Message-----
From: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Newman
Sent: 28 May 2002 23:24
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: London Guide
On Tue, 2002-05-28 at 16:10, Lee Jackson wrote:
> I'd be v.interested to hear from others on extant places/buildings/areas
etc
> that bring to life the Victorian city to them ... if anyone wants to write
> to me (rather than saturate the list with tourist stuff), I will summarise
> and put the favourites somewhere on my web site. The idea of a 'Victorian'
> tourist map of London appeals to me v.much - anyone else willing to
> contribute?
I'd also be interested in any recommendations - I'm about to embark on a
Gissing-inspired wander around Clerkenwell and environs, and despite
lots of information gleaned from the texts, guides and the excellent
Godfrey Edition 1871 and 1894 editions of the Ordanance Survey maps,
could still use any helpful pointers.
Mike
--
"we don't want free things, we want to be free"
Anonymous citizen of Ashekbad, Turkmenistan, BBC Radio 4 2002-05-25
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 09:39:50 +0100
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: London Guide
PS
One further thought - there are at least two Blue Plaque Guides which list
all the blue plaques in London which are put on buildings to show a famous
person who lived there. Those buildings are always thoroughly researched and
correct, as far as I know. You can buy them in any good London bookshop.
Paul
Paul Lewis
web www.paullewis.co.uk
tel 07836 217311
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:44:58 GMT
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "dilate" in 1831 - Lesley Hall; Beth Sutton-Ramspeck
> Re: - Midwifery - "By the end of the 17th century,
male midwifery was the
> fashion in many cities
Fashionable yes, but nonetheless the vast majority of
births well into the C20th were attended by female
midwives. Male obstetricians tended to be pursuing a
relatively limited potential patient constituency. For
most women what was fashionable was not a
consideration when seeking a birth attendent.
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
website:
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:49:50 GMT
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Lie back..P.S...
> At the end of my last post I wrote:
>
> By the way it has always seemed to me that this
advice could originally have had an Indian
context, "England" being a shorthand for "something
else" or "something nice" .
This was my reading initially, though this may have
been influenced by the misleading association (which I
think was the context in which I first encountered it)
with Queen Victoria counselling her daughter who was
off to Germany - 'older, happier sights'.
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
website:
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:25:14 +0100
From: Martin Hewitt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Calendar of Conferences
Dear Listmembers,
As part of its summer mailing this year the British Association for
Victorian Studies is planning to produce for members a small
'yearbook'. It is hoped that one element of this yearbook will be a
calendar of Victorian Studies-related conferences and events, both
to draw attention to upcoming meetings, but also as an aid to
members in the advanced planning of their own events.
I would therefore be very grateful for any information about
forthcoming conferences, especially those which are planned but
have not yet got as far as publishing calls for papers. I would also
like to hear from any groups who have a relatively fixed cycle of
events, occuring at about the same time each year.
The intention is to cover as far into the future as is necessary, so
information on events in 2003/4 and beyond would be just as useful
as information about events in 2002/3.
There is no need to provide me with information already
communicated to Emma Mason or Clare Bainbridge, for use in the
BAVS Newsletter and Notification Service.
Many thanks,
Martin
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 06:22:33 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: London Guide
The London Underground used to publish a little paperback guide to Victorian
London. I don't know if they still do, but it would be worth inquiring. I
found it very informative.
Cynthia Behrman
wittenberg University
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:38:17 +1000
From: Toni Johnson-woods <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Serials in Australian Periodicals
For those who are interested in serialised fiction, my index has been
published by Mulini Press. It covers the major Australian periodicals
until 1899.
For further information
http://www.uq.edu.au/~entjohns/serialsincolonialperiodicals.html
Cheers
toni johnson-woods
university of queensland
contemporary studies
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:49:38 +0000
From: charlotte mitchell <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Turkish baths in C19 fiction
Dear Malcolm,
There is a reference to a former Turkish bath called The Hummums in Great
Expectations. Have you read A.P.Herbert, The Trials of Topsy? Not a
Victorian work but it does have a scene in a Turkish bath.
Dr Charlotte Mitchell
Department of English
University College London
London
WC1E 6BT
Telephone: 020 7679 2000 ext 3146/ 020 7679 3146
Facsimile: 020 7916 2054
E-mail: [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:23:38 +0100
From: Malcolm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Turkish baths in C19 fiction
charlotte mitchell wrote:
> Dear Malcolm,
> There is a reference to a former Turkish bath called The Hummums in Great
> Expectations. Have you read A.P.Herbert, The Trials of Topsy? Not a
> Victorian work but it does have a scene in a Turkish bath.
Dear Charlotte
Many thanks for your post.
Although Great Expectations was published between 1860 and 1861, there
were
only four small Turkish baths in London at that time, the first being
opened
in July 1860. Originally, the Hummums in Covent Garden had been a
vapour/steam bath/brothel but by the 1860s was just a hotel.
The Trials of Topsy sounds much more likely, but I haven't read any APH
since
I was a teenager (over 50 yrs ago, alas). Do you have any particular
reference in mind? I won't be able to get to a library for a week or so.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply. It is much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Malcolm
--
Malcolm Shifrin
[log in to unmask]
A not-for-profit educational project
************************************************************
VISIT our website (augmented and updated monthly) at
http://www.victorianturkishbath.org/
Best viewed on Internet Explorer 4+
Non-pictorial information on the website, or from the underlying
databank,
may
be used freely in not-for-profit projects, as can any photographs
credited
Shifrin.
Acknowledgement should be made to Malcolm Shifrin's Victorian Turkish
Bath
website at: www.victorianturkishbath.org/
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:38:46 +0100
From: Malcolm <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Apologies
I'm really sorry to have pressed the wrong button again. I was working
too late last night. I WILL try to do better next time.
Malcolm
--
Malcolm Shifrin
[log in to unmask]
A not-for-profit educational project
rianturkishbath.org/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 08:56:12 -0400
From: Stephen Arata <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Buried Alive
Has anyone mentioned Stevenson's _The Master of Ballantrae_ yet? It
has been many years since I read it, but I recall that the older brother in
the story has himself buried alive in an attempt to escape capture. The
plan is to revive him once the coast is clear, though I don't remember how
he was supposed to stay alive in the interval. In any case, things go wrong,
horribly wrong, and he dies.
By coincidence, I was recently reading James Braid's pamphlet _On
Trance; or Human Hiberation_ (1850), which is largely an attempt to account
for reports from India of Fakirs who, it was said, could be buried for days
or even weeks and then revived. Braid, who was an early practitioner of
hypnotism (he is usually credited with coining the word), argues that the
Fakirs' condition results from self-hypnotism leading to a deep trance akin
to animal hibernation. But his pamphlet also attests to the appalled
fascination with which the Victorians contemplated live burial. I don't
know anything about the medical literature on this topic, but Braid seems
to indicate that there's a lot of it around in the 1840s. It might worth
looking into.
If I'm not mistaken, the character in Stevenson's story is aided in
his plot by his Indian servant.
Also, on the topic of bells attached to coffins: by 1904, Leopold
Bloom, ever in the forefront of technological innovation, thinks they ought
to put a telephone in every coffin, just in case.
Steve
---------------------------------
Stephen Arata
Associate Professor of English
University of Virginia
434-924-7105 (phone)
434-924-1478 (fax)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:54:37 +0100
From: Fiona Blair <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Agents
Dear list members
I am interested in looking at the rise of the role of agents in the creative
agencies - a trend like so many others which seems to be traceable back to
the Victorian period. I am interested in literary agents, sports agents,
theatrical agents and the earliest agents in Hollywood.
On the literary front I have come accross the names J.P. Pinker and A.P.
Watt and am interested in finding out more about these characters. Has
anything been written about them? Or about agents more generally?
All responses private or on the list gratefully received.
Thanks,
Fiona Blair
Television Researcher
[log in to unmask]
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal
views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not
use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it
and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors
e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent
to this.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:25:00 -0400
From: "Terry L. Meyers" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Buried Alive, with telephone or whatever
> Also, on the topic of bells attached to coffins: by 1904, Leopold Bloom,
> ever in the forefront of technological innovation, thinks they ought to
> put a telephone in every coffin, just in case.
More on such resurrectionist technology:
http://www.snopes2.com/horrors/gruesome/phone.htm#buried
_________________________________________________________________________
Terry L. Meyers voice-mail: 757-221-3932
English Department fax: 757-221-1844
College of William and Mary
Williamsburg, VA 23187-8795
_________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:27:20 -0400
From: "Rachel M. Bright" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Agents
Company records for A.P. Watt & Co. are held at UNC Chapel Hill library
(http://www.lib.unc.edu/mss/inv/a/A.P.Watt_and_Company/). Their website
contains some summary background information and histroy about Watt and his
company, plus a searchable index of the records held by the library.
Rachel Bright
English Department
Temple University
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:26:32 +0100
From: "Dryden, Linda" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Agents
Fiona
I believe someone is currently writing a book about Pinker but cannot
remember the name. You should also contact David Finkelstein at Queen
Margaret University College, Edinburgh, who has done work on Pinker. There
is certainly a need for some one to look into Pinker's relationship with
Conrad, among others.
Linda
Dr Linda Dryden
Senior Lecturer
School of Psychology and Sociology
Napier University
Edinburgh EH10 5LG
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiona Blair [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 29 May 2002 11:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Agents
Dear list members
I am interested in looking at the rise of the role of agents in the creative
agencies - a trend like so many others which seems to be traceable back to
the Victorian period. I am interested in literary agents, sports agents,
theatrical agents and the earliest agents in Hollywood.
On the literary front I have come accross the names J.P. Pinker and A.P.
Watt and am interested in finding out more about these characters. Has
anything been written about them? Or about agents more generally?
All responses private or on the list gratefully received.
Thanks,
Fiona Blair
Television Researcher
[log in to unmask]
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal
views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not
use,
copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and
notify
the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent
or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:15:14 EDT
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: London Guide
One new source for Victorian London is the fascinating series of OLD
ORDNANCE SURVEY MAPS. Stanford's in Long Acre has the complete selection
- some 90 in all. For instance, Holland Park 1871, Kensington 1894, and
St. John's Wood 1893. They sell for about 5 pounds apiece. They are fold
up mini road maps and, moreover, on the reverse side portions of the
streets are detailed door-to-door from the relevant Post Office Directory.
Again, with the caveat, as has been mentioned, the streets may have been
renumbered.
Tom Hughes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:22:42 +0100
From: bethan richards <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: London Guide
One of the best places to start would probably be the bookshop at the Museum
of London where they have guide books on whatever element of London history
you happen to be interested in. Also, The Old Operating Theatre Museum and
Herb Garret near London Bridge has lots of information on London walks, as
well as a Victorian operating theatre, complete with bloodied aprons and
scary implements.
Bethan
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:42:16 -0500
From: "Doris H. Meriwether" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: London Guide
The Carlyles' house at 24 Cheyne Row is open to the public and preserved
much as it was in their day. Rossetti (and his menagerie) lived at the
foot of the street on Cheyne Walk, George Eliot lived further along
Cheyne Walk toward the Albert Bridge after she married Cross, and
Whistler lived along Cheyne Walk near the Battersea Bridge. (Great pub
at the foot of Cheyne Walk--the Kings Head and Eight Bells!)
Doris Meriwether
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:54:16 -0500
From: "Doris H. Meriwether" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Laboring Classes - Celebrations
It's been awhile since I've read it, but I seem to recall that
Tennyson's _The Princess_ is framed by a description of working-class
types who're invited for a day out of "improving" fun on a great
estate. They're not, however, involved in the tale of the Princess; the
owner's son takes a group of his friends to a secluded spot where the
tale is told.
Doris Meriwether
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 12:08:37 -0400
From: Herb Schlossberg <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: London Guide
Also Leigh Hunt, about 30 yards from the Carlyle House. He used to visit
Carlyle when he lived there.
Herb Schlossberg
[log in to unmask]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doris H. Meriwether" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2002 11:42 AM
Subject: London Guide
> The Carlyles' house at 24 Cheyne Row is open to the public and preserved
> much as it was in their day. Rossetti (and his menagerie) lived at the
> foot of the street on Cheyne Walk, George Eliot lived further along
> Cheyne Walk toward the Albert Bridge after she married Cross, and
> Whistler lived along Cheyne Walk near the Battersea Bridge. (Great pub
> at the foot of Cheyne Walk--the Kings Head and Eight Bells!)
>
> Doris Meriwether
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:11:21 +0100
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Gaslight Mystery
Hi!
Have any other list members had problems accessing the Gaslight site? It's
normally a wonderful source of 19C e-texts, but it seems to have vanished
recently. Does anyone know what's happened?
All the best
Chris
================================================================
Chris Willis - London Guildhall University
[log in to unmask]
http://www.chriswillis.freeserve.co.uk/
"Human beings were invented by water as a device for transporting itself
from one place to another." ( Ed Ford)
================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 22:58:16 +0100
From: Michel Faber <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Appropriate launch venues for The Crimson Petal And The White
Dear VICTORIA members,
My Victorian novel 'The Crimson Petal And The White' is scheduled
for publication in October and, because the story is set in London,
my publisher is keen for it to be launched in a characterful and
appropriate London venue.
Any of you who have suggestions for such a venue, please
nominate it, and I would be most grateful. My publisher is hoping for
a space that could host 200 - 250 people, but has said that if a
particularly wonderful venue were suggested which held far fewer,
he would consider it. 120 people is, I gather, his lower limit.
So, all suggestions for book-launch-friendly Victorian environments
are most welcome. Private responses are probably best, unless you
are happy to seize upon any excuse to extol the virtues of your
favourite Victorian place...
Best wishes,
Michel Faber
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 07:26:09 +0100
From: Paul Lewis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Researching costs, 1880s
An excellent source is Leone Levi _Wages and Earnings of the Working
Classes_, London 1885 reprinted by the Irish Univ Press in 1971 ISBN 0 7165
1792 2.
It was an official report, or at least done for the Govt, and it gives not
only wages but also household budgets and what things cost. For example
there are complete 'workman's budgets' for 1857 and 1884 showing earnings
per week and the cost of food, coal and gas, sundries, tobacco, clothes etc.
Paul
Paul
Paul Lewis
web www.paullewis.co.uk
tel 07836 217311
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:55:09 -0500
From: "Doris H. Meriwether" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: London Guide
Thanks to Herb for remembering Leigh Hunt whom I inadvertently failed to
mention. He lived in Upper Cheyne Row very close, as Herb indicated, to
the Carlyles, too close for Jane's comfort as he dropped around for a
visit--and a bowl of porridge--nightly.
Doris Meriwether
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 28 May 2002 to 29 May 2002 (#2002-149)
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