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MEDIEVAL-RELIGION  December 2001

MEDIEVAL-RELIGION December 2001

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Subject:

Re: Crusades, just wars, and such

From:

Dennis Martin <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 3 Dec 2001 19:32:24 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

Jonathan Riley-Smith's summary account of the differences between modern just war theory (since the 16thc) and medieval understandings of what was going on in the Crusades would seem to be just the opposite of the claims made below.  One can find the full text of his short "popular" account "Rethinking the Crusades" in _First Things_ (March 2000) at www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0003/opinion/riley-smith.html (or just go to www.firstthings.com and search the back issues feature for "Crusades" or Riley-Smith.

I was unsuccessful in my attempts to paste into this posting the key passages from this article, but Riley-Smith argues that the medieval understanding linked justice with Christ and insisted that violence itself was morally neutral but could rightly be employed on behalf of justice; that modern international law versions made it much more of a legal matter, and, influenced by modern pacifism, took for granted that war itself is intrinsically evil.  Riley-Smith also argues that with the founding of the League of Nations and United Nations etc. the basis for justified warfare has moved back toward a natural law basis from an international law basis for the use of force under certain justified conditions and that this move is actually somewhat closer to the medieval Christian view.  He also notes that recent research on the First Crusade questions seriously the estimates of the amount of bloodshed at the capture of Jerusalem in 1099.

I cite this as a convenient summary, not as a substitute for Professor Riley-Smith's voluminous scholarly publications on this topic; nor am I suggesting that his views are universally accepted by those working in the field.  But they are certainly worthy of consideration.  (He also makes useful distincions between the military orders as permanent engaged and the more ad hoc penitential-pilgrimage crusader armies.)

Dennis Martin

>>> [log in to unmask] 12/02/01 08:02 AM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

In the Christian medieval world, the "miles Christi" was a spiritual war,
against the devil, with the Holy Spirit weapons. In first time there were
the hermits, so the christian appears as a man that rejects the war. But
later, with Crusades and with the born of Knights Templar in 1129 a Troyes,
this idea seems to change. Anyhow  the concept fo "Just war" doesn't
translate well the medieval "iustum bellum". To avoid a wrong idea, it
should be better to say "legal war", or better "juridically permissible, or
lawful". The concept of "ius" concerns the law, not the justice. The
concepts of "iustitia" and "aequitas" cannot be confused. For see more J.T.
Johnson, Just war, tradition and restreint of war, Princeton 1981, and F.
Cardini, The Christians, the war and the holiness, in AA.VV. The Knights
Templar, the war and the holiness,( in italian), ed. Il cerchio, Rimini
(Italy), 2000.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Mallaghan" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: [M-R] Crusades, just wars, and such


> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> This discussion of 'Just War Theorư', made me think of the short treatise
> that Augustine of Hippo wrote to Count Boniface in AD418 as he went off to
> campaign against Saharan tribesmen.  Augustine is after all usually
credited
> with thinking up the concept,  at least in the context of Christianity.
> Augustine's military morality was basically that war should be waged
> necessary to achieve peace, with the minimum necessary violence, and with
> clemency to the vanquished enemy, who should not be executed. Of course,
> this was intelf derivative, as Cicero said much the same, in 'De Officiis
> 1.11, 34-36, and 'De Re Publica', 3.23.34-35.
>
> The same ideas, or pieties, have of course been much bandied around in the
> recent conflict, especially in the context of the suppression of the
revolt
> at Maazar-i-Sharif, and I suspect that in the Roman Empire and Middle
Ages,
> when there were no journalists there searching for a new and controversial
> angle on a story, there was nothing but fear for one's soul to stop one
> committing battlefield excesses, and dispatching prisoners. It is also
worth
> remembering that unless a statement of absolution, as in the case of the
> Crusades, was made in advance, medieval knights (and other soldiers?),
were
> required to undertake penance after combat. Presumably, the prospect of
> steep financial penalty, enforced pilgrimage, or some other act of
> penitance, would have discouraged many from perpetrating atrocities. The
> immediate and worldly prospect of a tangible penitentiary act of this kind
> would probably have had been a more effective way of enforcing the notion
of
> Just War than an abstract and deferred threat to one's soul. For example,
> Odo of Bayeux, required the soldiers and nobles who took part in the 1066
> invasion of England to undertake sometimes substantial financial and
severe
> physical acts of penitence to gain absolution for thier 'sins' of
bloodshed,
> rising proportionately according to their rank and degree of involvement
in
> the campaign, or a cynic might say, rising in severity according to the
> wealth of the penitent, and their ability to pay money or grant lands to
the
> church in lieu of physical penance, or effective exile of pilgrimage.
>
> Presumably, excommunication or interdiction could also be used to enforce
> Just War theory, or at least to ensure that penitentary acts should be
> carried out? What attempts were made to ensure that campaigns were fought
> according to the ideal of Just War, rather than merely impose peitentiary
> acts after the conflict?
>
> Graham Mallaghan
> Occasional Contributor.
>
>
> >From: Dennis Martin <[log in to unmask]>
> >Reply-To: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >   <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [M-R] Crusades, just wars, and such
> >Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:37:00 -0600
> >
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> >What difference does it make that Just War theory at best justifies one
> >side?  If both sides are justified, why war?  "Just war" is not a
misnomer,
> >despite the fact that very few wars were just, that is, very have
satisfied
> >the criteria fully.  But the whole point of the theory is to set criteria
> >which, if met, would justify war.  That is no misnomer.  Since the basic
> >criterion for just cause is to defend the innocent, if one truly has an
> >innocent people unjustly attacked, were capable of defending them, and
> >chose not to defend them, this would be manifestly unjust.
> >
> >Defending unjustly attacked innocent people is of course, not
> >easy--prosecuting a war that has a just cause often ends up in injustice
> >because the other criteria are not followed.  However, to declare the
very
> >idea of a just war impossible would leave innocently and therefore
unjustly
> >attacked people utterly defenseless.
> >
> >Bainton was a pacifist and his account must be read in that light.  It
has
> >much valuable information in it, but his account of the early Christian
> >centuries as completely pacifist has been creditably disputed.  I have
> >posted regarding other resources in the past on this list.
> >
> >Dennis Martin
> >
> > >>> [log in to unmask] 11/30/01 17:04 PM >>>
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> >Hi all.
> >
> >This may be an oversimplification, but here goes.
> >
> >In general, there have been three distinct Christian views concernig
> >participating in warfare:
> >   a.  Pacificism -- the complete refusal to take part in war.
> >   b.  The Just War Theory -- a huge misnomer if ever there was one!
> >       The theory, in whatever form one wishes to accept it, does
> >       not in fact justify a given war; at most it justifes the
> >       participation of one side in a given war.  (It is quite
> >       possible for both sides in a war to participate unjustly
> >       according to most forms of the theory.)
> >   c.  The Crusade -- generally a war where the organized church takes
> >       a directing role in the conduct of the war.
> >
> >Russell's book provides an excellent map through this often vexing
> >territory.
> >
> >More specialized, as the title indicates is Joan Tooke's THE JUST WAR IN
> >AQUINAS AND GROTIUS.  I found Tooke's discussion of Thomas on this
subject
> >quite valuable.
> >
> >For a readable introduction to this whole area, there is also Roland
> >Bainton's CHRISTIAN ATTITUDES TOWARD WAR AND PEACE.
> >
> >I do hope this helps.
> >
> >
> >Regards to all!
> >
> >Frank
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Frank Morgret
> >15 Towering Hts -- #1206
> >St Catharines, Ontario
> >CANADA
> >L2T 3G7
> >
> >[log in to unmask]
> >
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